NATION

PASSWORD

LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11835
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:30 pm

Kowani wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
I'll try to find the articles, but my parents used to read The Atlantic and The New Yorker quite regularly, and the amount of Hitler analogies that arose due to the Patriot Act were plentiful. And this was also the height of the gay marriage controversy, so that played a role.

Remember kids, before white nationalists were the big scary bad, it was evangelical Christians.

Ever since the 70’s, the Religious Right has yet to contribute anything of value to the National political discourse.


Perhaps, but calling them fascists or Nazis is retarded.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:34 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ever since the 70’s, the Religious Right has yet to contribute anything of value to the National political discourse.


Perhaps, but calling them fascists or Nazis is retarded.

There are certain things in common, but the base equating the two is just wrong.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Yes, people did compare the Bush administration to the nazis. But using that as some sort of cudgel against the left is dumb. After all, while some liberals were calling Bush a nazi, so were a bunch of conservatives circulating a never-ending avalanche of memes and hilariously self-serious arguments as to why Obama was literally Hitler and screaming "feminazi" at a deafening pitch.

Everyone likes to use and abuse nazism as a rhetorical device.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Duhon
Senator
 
Posts: 4421
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Duhon » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:10 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?


Yes, due to the trauma forced on me by 9/11.

Contemplating the demise of so many people at once when you're but a little kid was... not pleasant.
Last edited by Duhon on Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:14 pm

Duhon wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?


Yes, due to the trauma forced on me by 9/11.

Contemplating the demise of so many people at once when you're but a little kid was... not pleasant.

And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:12 pm

Liriena wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Yes, due to the trauma forced on me by 9/11.

Contemplating the demise of so many people at once when you're but a little kid was... not pleasant.

And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.

Not really.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Liriena wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Yes, due to the trauma forced on me by 9/11.

Contemplating the demise of so many people at once when you're but a little kid was... not pleasant.

And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.

Yes which is infuriating, the evangelical faction of the GOP has absolutely no moral foundation to stand on.

User avatar
Duhon
Senator
 
Posts: 4421
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Duhon » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:15 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Liriena wrote:And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.

Not really.


It's probably more accurate to say certain individual Republican politicians, as well as groups closely affiliated with the GOP, are in fact pushing for such policies.

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?


Yes, barely but yes. Awful times. Politics today is much better and diverse (sic!)
Last edited by Nakena on Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Liriena wrote:And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.

Yes which is infuriating, the evangelical faction of the GOP has absolutely no moral foundation to stand on.

They do not require one. Much like minorities by any other name, pandering gets votes.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:21 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Liriena wrote:And there's also the fact that the GOP did push, continued to push, and is still pushing, for theocratic legislation.

Yes which is infuriating, the evangelical faction of the GOP has absolutely no moral foundation to stand on.


I enjoy how the christian GOP has completly destroyed and obliberated their own moral foundations with Roy Moore and Trump. They now no longer can credibly make any claims on moral and christianity, without coming across as totally hypocrite and unintentionally funny. All gutter trashed for good into the dumpster. This is great. This is the exact way it happened with Berlusconi in Italy.

I really like that.
Last edited by Nakena on Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:24 pm

Nakena wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Yes which is infuriating, the evangelical faction of the GOP has absolutely no moral foundation to stand on.


I enjoy how the christian GOP has completly destroyed and obliberated their own moral foundations with Roy Moore and Trump. They now no longer can credibly make any claims on moral and christianity, without coming across as totally hypocrite and unintentionally funny. All gutter trashed for good into the dumpster. This is great. This is the exact way it happened with Berlusconi in Italy.

I really like that.

Evil always contains the seeds of its own destruction.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Currently watching the 2nd Night of the Democratic Debate via Youtube with my GF.
It's both interesting and amusing.

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:38 pm

Kowani wrote:There aren’t that many Europeans moving into Islamic countries.


My point was that most people will only associate with strangers if they feel welcome.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:42 pm

Turbofolkia wrote:I think he’s trying to say that some countries have been reluctant to integrate Muslims and other migrant groups, which isn’t an unreasonable thing to say.

I mean, there have been other migrant groups which have not integrated all that well either. It seems like Muslims are being singled out.


Yes. When people are marginalized (or othered) by the dominant population, associating with them will not be a priority.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Perhaps, but calling them fascists or Nazis is retarded.


Some people on the religious right are neonazis (the Christian Identity Movement).
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Soviet Tankistan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Tankistan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:47 pm

Trump is a terrible president and the GOP is oiled by ignorance, but it's going well. Tighter borders for hard working immigrants and very low unemployment... perfect conditions for a mass strike if you ask me. The corporations are having trouble firing employees right now because there's not always a replacement. The country could easily be torn apart if the government and capitalism doesn't yield to economic protests. The system won't bring drastic change by voting, but the rulers have a lot to lose. Imagine, the rich pressured into giving better conditions by their own market's fault.
Last edited by Soviet Tankistan on Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
☭Welcome to Soviet Tankistan!☭
In Soviet Tankistan, everyone is considered a worker if they contribute. Fascists and terrorists are not welcome.


Humanity, Socialism, Order Political Compass: 8 left and 1 upwards.

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8174
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:49 pm

Soviet Tankistan wrote:Trump is a terrible president and the GOP is piled by ignorance, but it's going well. Tighter borders for hard working immigrants and very low unemployment... perfect conditions for a mass strike if you ask me. The corporations are having trouble firing employees right now because there's not always a replacement. The country could easily be torn apart if the government and capitalism doesn't yield to economic protests. The system won't bring drastic change by voting, but the rulers have a lot to lose. Imagine, the rich pressured into giving better conditions by their own market's fault.

If one can make it bigger than the last attempt sure.
But can it?
#NSTransparency

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:55 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Perhaps, but calling them fascists or Nazis is retarded.


Some people on the religious right are neonazis (the Christian Identity Movement).


What's the Christian Identity Movement?
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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Soviet Tankistan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Tankistan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:00 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:Trump is a terrible president and the GOP is piled by ignorance, but it's going well. Tighter borders for hard working immigrants and very low unemployment... perfect conditions for a mass strike if you ask me. The corporations are having trouble firing employees right now because there's not always a replacement. The country could easily be torn apart if the government and capitalism doesn't yield to economic protests. The system won't bring drastic change by voting, but the rulers have a lot to lose. Imagine, the rich pressured into giving better conditions by their own market's fault.

If one can make it bigger than the last attempt sure.
But can it?

It would be hard to organize. I would plan it with one pivotal sector, like commerce and transportation, and expand from their. Trucks stopping, trains to a halt, ships in bay, and planes grounded, all of these would hit trade hard. From there the common American would learn and hopefully join. Opposing it wouldn't make a difference as only the capitalists and the state can put an end to such activity.

It is possible that violent methods would suppress protest, although this would further help by making brutality clear.

If it worked, the problem may be negotiating. It is unrealistic to overthrow the government and doing so may be hazardous. With that, what would wages be? Hours and welfare too?
☭Welcome to Soviet Tankistan!☭
In Soviet Tankistan, everyone is considered a worker if they contribute. Fascists and terrorists are not welcome.


Humanity, Socialism, Order Political Compass: 8 left and 1 upwards.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:01 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Some people on the religious right are neonazis (the Christian Identity Movement).


What's the Christian Identity Movement?


It holds that Anglos and other such white people are the actual descendants of the Biblical Israelites and are the only ones capable of achieving salvation.
Last edited by Washington Resistance Army on Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:03 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
What's the Christian Identity Movement?


It holds that Anglos and other such white people are the actual descendants of the Biblical Israelites.

…So, the Black Hebrews (I think that’s what they’re called) but for White People.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:21 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
What's the Christian Identity Movement?


It holds that Anglos and other such white people are the actual descendants of the Biblical Israelites and are the only ones capable of achieving salvation.


So, the British Israelites.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:12 am

Image
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hanafuridake » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:20 am

Liriena wrote:so were a bunch of conservatives circulating a never-ending avalanche of memes and hilariously self-serious arguments as to why Obama was literally Hitler and screaming "feminazi" at a deafening pitch.


Image
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

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