LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Great Minarchistan]

Quite fairly, being dumb enough to drop out of college and not even considering finishing it doesn't earn you the right -- or the possibility -- of making a living wage*.

* living wage assumed as middle/upper middle class standards since you literally start off w/ at least $11/hr in walmart vs the conventioned $15/hr standard for living wage

You're assuming that dropping out and being unable to return is a choice. It often isn't.

It is a decision in the sense that you can either abandon whatever issue is pushing you to drop out and finish college -- this includes close relatives dying or some real nasty shit -- or even take a hiatus to finish your college education later. Dropping out and not going back does impact your lifetime earnings by a lot, but then again it isn't the employers' fault if you have a high time preference or if your personal decisions aren't oriented to maximize your net worth.

[Cekoviu]

You're assuming that dropping out and being unable to return is a choice. It often isn't.

It is a decision in the sense that you can either abandon whatever issue is pushing you to drop out and finish college -- this includes close relatives dying or some real nasty shit -- or even take a hiatus to finish your college education later. Dropping out and not going back does impact your lifetime earnings by a lot, but then again it isn't the employers' fault if you have a high time preference or if your personal decisions aren't oriented to maximize your net worth.

So your suggestion is to either ignore whatever extreme circumstance makes it either difficult or impossible to continue attending or to return regardless of any current circumstances preventing that...
You sound incredibly naïve.

[Great Minarchistan]

It is a decision in the sense that you can either abandon whatever issue is pushing you to drop out and finish college -- this includes close relatives dying or some real nasty shit -- or even take a hiatus to finish your college education later. Dropping out and not going back does impact your lifetime earnings by a lot, but then again it isn't the employers' fault if you have a high time preference or if your personal decisions aren't oriented to maximize your net worth.

So your suggestion is to either ignore whatever extreme circumstance makes it either difficult or impossible to continue attending or to return regardless of any current circumstances preventing that...
You sound incredibly naïve.

No, the point is that you can either ignore them and carry on with college, deal with them and then finish college or dealing with them and not going to college. What you end up picking is up to your preferences on maximization of utility, just be aware that employers wont give you a "you tried" trophy if you give up on college altogether and still have to cope with 10s of thousands of debt.

[Liriena]

So your suggestion is to either ignore whatever extreme circumstance makes it either difficult or impossible to continue attending or to return regardless of any current circumstances preventing that...
You sound incredibly naïve.

No, the point is that you can either ignore them and carry on with college, deal with them and then finish college or dealing with them and not going to college. What you end up picking is up to your preferences on maximization of utility, just be aware that employers wont give you a "you tried" trophy if you give up on college altogether and still have to cope with 10s of thousands of debt.

That's a very roundabout way of admitting that the current socioeconomic system treats college education as a gatekeeping tool to keep the working poor poor.

[Joohan]

Why do internationalists/anarchists support revolutionary nationalist groups? IRA, ETA, PLO, Peshmerga, etc.

I understand that various rebel groups have had some kind socialist lean to them - but this hasn't always been the case, like with the PLO for example. The only thing which seems consistent with any given revolutionary nationalist group, is nationalism - something that is usually antithetical to the designs and desires of internationalists and those against traditional cultural identities.

I mean, if you're an anarchist against borders, patriarchy, constructive social norms, and in group favoritism, why would you be in favor of say, your typical branch of the Peshmerga which doesnt share any of the YPG'S beliefs? Or the PLO?

[First American Empire]

Why do internationalists/anarchists support revolutionary nationalist groups? IRA, ETA, PLO, Peshmerga, etc.

I understand that various rebel groups have had some kind socialist lean to them - but this hasn't always been the case, like with the PLO for example. The only thing which seems consistent with any given revolutionary nationalist group, is nationalism - something that is usually antithetical to the designs and desires of internationalists and those against traditional cultural identities.

I mean, if you're an anarchist against borders, patriarchy, constructive social norms, and in group favoritism, why would you be in favor of say, your typical branch of the Peshmerga which doesnt share any of the YPG'S beliefs? Or the PLO?

In some cases its because they're rebelling against even worse nationalists. I would prefer them to not be nationalist at all, but in some cases they're the only serious opposition to far-right nationalist regimes.

For example, the PLO is the lesser evil compared to the far-right Netanyahu government of Israel, and the ETA was better than the literally fascist Franco regime. (Though I don't support the ETA because Spain isn't led by fascists anymore.) The Peshmerga are specifically the military forces of Iraqi Kurdistan, and thus have been mainly been fighting against the genocidal armies of ISIL. I don't understand why people liked the IRA though. The UK isn't exactly a bastion of tyranny, and the Irish government was usually center-right. I didn't support Irish reunification at all until Brexit.

TLDR: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

EDIT: I am an Internationalist but not an Anarchist. I forgot to mention that earlier.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I don't think the state should regulate ameteur prostitution.

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

[Cekoviu]

I don't think the state should regulate ameteur prostitution.

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

She might mean freelance prostitution (not tied to the pimp system).

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Where does that compassion end, that is, would you be concerned with a fundamentalist Muslim plurality in your nation?

The vast majority of Muslims in the Western world have nothing to do with so-called fundamentalist Islam or Islamism (Arabic, إِسْلَامِيَّة, ⫰Is°lāmiyyaẗ).

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

And yet, it seems Muslims are reluctant to integrate into West Europe as a whole.

It is a two-way street.

[Kowani]

And yet, it seems Muslims are reluctant to integrate into West Europe as a whole.

It is a two-way street.

There aren’t that many Europeans moving into Islamic countries.

[Cekoviu]

Where does that compassion end, that is, would you be concerned with a fundamentalist Muslim plurality in your nation?

The vast majority of Muslims in the Western world have nothing to do with so-called fundamentalist Islam or Islamism (Arabic, إِسْلَامِيَّة, ⫰Is°lāmiyyaẗ).

While I personally enjoy etymology lessons, I don't think it's really necessary to give one here.

It is a two-way street.

There aren’t that many Europeans moving into Islamic countries.

Some Europeans are in Islamic countries (if you define Islamic as majority-Muslim) - Albanians, Bosnians, Thracian Turks, Azerbaijanis from the top 1/4 of the country. And some are from Islamic provinces, like a lot of Turkic and Caucasian groups in western Russia.
It's not necessarily a religious or cultural thing necessarily, more an issue of quality of life (which isn't very high for a lot of people in Islamic countries).

[Comus Eleutherios]

Why do internationalists/anarchists support revolutionary nationalist groups? IRA, ETA, PLO, Peshmerga, etc.

Echoing what First American Empire said, 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Especially if the next-best solution is 'international worker's revolution', because while that's the goal, people need help now and not in however many years it takes before we manage to get that off the ground.

Many anarchists are believers in self-determination, perhaps to a fault, especially in nations whose borders were drawn by the British Empire with all the finesse of a toddler with a crayon. They would argue attempting to change the politics of a group to better suit the Western ideal of socialism is barely a step-above the US government staging coups in Latin America.

And some anarchists, of course, don't support those groups, and many more don't support all of those groups. Nuance and all.

[Kassimo]

Why do internationalists/anarchists support revolutionary nationalist groups? IRA, ETA, PLO, Peshmerga, etc.

I understand that various rebel groups have had some kind socialist lean to them - but this hasn't always been the case, like with the PLO for example. The only thing which seems consistent with any given revolutionary nationalist group, is nationalism - something that is usually antithetical to the designs and desires of internationalists and those against traditional cultural identities.

I mean, if you're an anarchist against borders, patriarchy, constructive social norms, and in group favoritism, why would you be in favor of say, your typical branch of the Peshmerga which doesnt share any of the YPG'S beliefs? Or the PLO?

Very few anarchists support revolutionary nationalist groups. Anarchists have very sharp critiques of national liberation struggles and vanguardist armed struggle groups. As far as I know only a few Platformist organisations critically support revolutionary nationalism.

The Anarchist Federation (UK) pamphlet, 'Against Nationalism', gives a good analysis of this: http://afed.org.uk/against-nationalism/

[Loben The 2nd]

It is a two-way street.

There aren’t that many Europeans moving into Islamic countries.

hard to guess why.

[Turbofolkia]

It is a two-way street.

There aren’t that many Europeans moving into Islamic countries.

I think he’s trying to say that some countries have been reluctant to integrate Muslims and other migrant groups, which isn’t an unreasonable thing to say.

I mean, there have been other migrant groups which have not integrated all that well either. It seems like Muslims are being singled out.

[Bear Stearns]

Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?

[Cekoviu]

Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?

No, I don't.

[Bear Stearns]

Remember in the early 2000s when the American left was foaming at the mouth about how George Bush was the next Hitler and going to install an evangelical Christian theocracy?

No, I don't.

A young one, I see.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Dick Cheney being compared to Heinrich Himmler just puts a smile on my face for some reason lol

[Bear Stearns]

Dick Cheney being compared to Heinrich Himmler just puts a smile on my face for some reason lol

I'll try to find the articles, but my parents used to read The Atlantic and The New Yorker quite regularly, and the amount of Hitler analogies that arose due to the Patriot Act were plentiful. And this was also the height of the gay marriage controversy, so that played a role.

Remember kids, before white nationalists were the big scary bad, it was evangelical Christians.

[Cekoviu]

No, I don't.

A young one, I see.

That's some top-tier Godwinning.

[Kowani]

Dick Cheney being compared to Heinrich Himmler just puts a smile on my face for some reason lol

I'll try to find the articles, but my parents used to read The Atlantic and The New Yorker quite regularly, and the amount of Hitler analogies that arose due to the Patriot Act were plentiful. And this was also the height of the gay marriage controversy, so that played a role.

Remember kids, before white nationalists were the big scary bad, it was evangelical Christians.

Ever since the 70’s, the Religious Right has yet to contribute anything of value to the National political discourse.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

I'll try to find the articles, but my parents used to read The Atlantic and The New Yorker quite regularly, and the amount of Hitler analogies that arose due to the Patriot Act were plentiful. And this was also the height of the gay marriage controversy, so that played a role.

Remember kids, before white nationalists were the big scary bad, it was evangelical Christians.

Ever since the 70’s, the Religious Right has yet to contribute anything of value to the National political discourse.

Don't say that. Ted Haggard has gotten behind a lot of important legislation. Hell, he's great at oral rhetoric, and he's got something about him that's one in a million (or more aptly, one in ten). If anyone in political discourse has attractive ideas to all men, it's him.

[Kowani]

Ever since the 70’s, the Religious Right has yet to contribute anything of value to the National political discourse.

Don't say that. Ted Haggard has gotten behind a lot of important legislation. Hell, he's great at oral rhetoric, and he's got something about him that's one in a million (or more aptly, one in ten). If anyone in political discourse has attractive ideas to all men, it's him.

I had to read this twice to get it.