LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think more people are turning to biological essentialism, which is conflated with naziism by left wing idpol absolutists.

Well, given how the "biological essentialism" seems to always lead down the road to genocide denialism...

The majority of the planet involved in the coalition who fought the Nazis were biological essentialists.

The problem is the insincerity of the idpol left in acknowledging biology is a factor in humans and conflating that with naziism.

For instance you've got the problem of Pakistani populations in the UK and the endless whining over how they are oppressed, then using economic stats and social mobility stats to demonstrate it, already knowing they've taken off the table and labeled as Nazi things like noting;

"They have four times the rate of genetic disease and are less intelligent. Ofcourse they're not as productive or well off.".

That aspect in itself is rooted in sociology; Over half of them marry their cousins and that's been going on for generations now. Within two generations that's a level of inbreeding equivalent to having children with your half-sibling, and doing it again after that results in a full sibling level inbreeding ratio in terms of genetics. They've been doing it 80 years, or three or four generations. You may as well be crying and calling everyone Nazis for acknowledging Habsburgism is a thing.

This also impacts the level of violence the population produces and so on.

But talking about any of that is verbotten. Better we ignore reality and institute a kakistocracy so as to have the superficial appearance of equality.

"Do we go with someone competent, or fulfill our quota by hiring a Habsburg with no chin? Hmmmm."

[Darussalam]

Eh, I'd say it's real but only in a very specific way. As far as I can tell, most right-libs stay consistently libertarian. The problem, I'd say, comes mostly from right-libs of the more ancap persuasion and right-libs who identify as "classical liberals".

As a classical liberal, I view fascism is very grotesque, and the fascists seem to have a mutual feeling towards me. With that being said, the "libertarian" fascists I see are normally Hoppean Ancaps who went off the edge. They all like to quote Democracy: The God That Failed, written by Hans Hermann Hoppe.

Hoppe would be repulsed of fascism, which is something a bit more than "non-democratic rightism". Hoppe himself has criticized the alt-right. Critics of modern progressivism with reactionary leanings tend to castigate fascism as perversion of democracy due to their cynical utilization of mass politics.

It's true that libertarian ideas tend to breed more skepticism to democracy. It certainly questions the notion that popular consensus always confers moral legitimacy, especially when the popular consensus tends to favor paternalism more than individual autonomy. This isn't fascism, at least not in any useful sense.

[Duvniask]

Practically, at least, yes, but recognizing that would mean leaving the ivory tower behind...

So then, you see how saying "private property cannot exist without being protected/enforced, therefore it is not worth supporting," is no better of an argument than "free speech/right to life/freedom of assembly/freedom of religion/etc cannot exist without being enforced, therefore it is not worth supporting."

This has literally nothing to do with anything. Surely you can see for yourself that I never made the above argument or any variation thereof.

[Liriena]

Well, given how the "biological essentialism" seems to always lead down the road to genocide denialism...

The majority of the planet involved in the coalition who fought the Nazis were biological essentialists.

The problem is the insincerity of the idpol left in acknowledging biology is a factor in humans and conflating that with naziism.

Gotta admire how adeptly you glossed over the fact that we're talking about biological essentialism applied to gender and ethnicity within a far right framework. Is this your subtle way of coming out as a "race realist" and "two genders" fella?

For instance you've got the problem of Pakistani populations

Not this "incest made them inferior" shit again.

"Do we go with someone competent, or fulfill our quota by hiring a Habsburg with no chin? Hmmmm."

And I wonder, what exactly would you use this oh-so-empirical information for? You, personally, what policies would you support? Other than shitting on immigrants, which we know you love to do.

[Ostroeuropa]

The majority of the planet involved in the coalition who fought the Nazis were biological essentialists.

The problem is the insincerity of the idpol left in acknowledging biology is a factor in humans and conflating that with naziism.

Gotta admire how adeptly you glossed over the fact that we're talking about biological essentialism applied to gender and ethnicity within a far right framework. Is this your subtle way of coming out as a "race realist" and "two genders" fella?

For instance you've got the problem of Pakistani populations

Not this "incest made them inferior" shit again.

"Do we go with someone competent, or fulfill our quota by hiring a Habsburg with no chin? Hmmmm."

And I wonder, what exactly would you use this oh-so-empirical information for? You, personally, what policies would you support? Other than shitting on immigrants, which we know you love to do.

Sex differences exist and are part of the problem with the boys crisis in education, insistence on a blank slate theory (with women as the default and men being gaslit and told they're not doing it right) disadvantages boys by moulding education around female biology. This also impacts general behavior in men being pathologized due to feminist gynocentrism now being the norm in society. The problem is declaring there are no inherent biological differences while simultaneously declaring difference is down to mens thought patterns, akin to deciding that everything should be built around people who are 6 foot, inherent height differences being denied as existing, and shorter people being told its their own fault for being short and they should behave like tall people to grow more.

Basic biology is "shit", good to know.

Pretty simple. When progressives whine about an underrepresentation of muslims and use "proof" like how certain high status professions aren't representative of the population, point out half the population doesn't qualify to be included and its absurd to argue it's due to discrimination. Say "It's biology mate.". This usually provokes hysterics about calling a demographic biologically inferior, and that's the entire problem. The refusal to recognize reality due to dogma.

Ban cousin marriage until the problem is resolved.

[Darussalam]

The majority of the planet involved in the coalition who fought the Nazis were biological essentialists.

The problem is the insincerity of the idpol left in acknowledging biology is a factor in humans and conflating that with naziism.

Gotta admire how adeptly you glossed over the fact that we're talking about biological essentialism applied to gender and ethnicity within a far right framework. Is this your subtle way of coming out as a "race realist" and "two genders" fella?

It's perfectly possible to be a scientific racialist and not being a Nazi

Well until some time ago, it's perfectly possible to be a scientific racialist and being a progressive leftist, of course.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

As a classical liberal, I view fascism is very grotesque, and the fascists seem to have a mutual feeling towards me. With that being said, the "libertarian" fascists I see are normally Hoppean Ancaps who went off the edge. They all like to quote Democracy: The God That Failed, written by Hans Hermann Hoppe.

Hoppe would be repulsed of fascism, which is something a bit more than "non-democratic rightism". Hoppe himself has criticized the alt-right. Critics of modern progressivism with reactionary leanings tend to castigate fascism as perversion of democracy due to their cynical utilization of mass politics.

It's true that libertarian ideas tend to breed more skepticism to democracy. It certainly questions the notion that popular consensus always confers moral legitimacy, especially when the popular consensus tends to favor paternalism more than individual autonomy. This isn't fascism, at least not in any useful sense.

I am somewhat skeptical of democracy myself. I am also well aware that Hoppe criticized the alt-right, but that doesn't stop some people going off the rails and becoming self identified fascists, while still viewing him as an inspiration. I'm not saying "Hoppe = Fascist", but I am saying that some of his supporters do go into that direction.


Example:
http://www.libertymachinenews.com/itrsq ... scism.html

[Liriena]

Gotta admire how adeptly you glossed over the fact that we're talking about biological essentialism applied to gender and ethnicity within a far right framework. Is this your subtle way of coming out as a "race realist" and "two genders" fella?


Not this "incest made them inferior" shit again.


And I wonder, what exactly would you use this oh-so-empirical information for? You, personally, what policies would you support? Other than shitting on immigrants, which we know you love to do.

Sex differences exist and are part of the problem with the boys crisis in education, insistence on a blank slate theory (with women as the default and men being gaslit and told they're not doing it right) disadvantages boys by moulding education around female biology. This also impacts general behavior in men being pathologized due to feminist gynocentrism now being the norm in society. The problem is declaring there are no inherent biological differences while simultaneously declaring difference is down to mens thought patterns, akin to deciding that everything should be built around people who are 6 foot, inherent height differences being denied as existing, and shorter people being told its their own fault for being short and they should behave like tall people to grow more.

Me pointing out that the topic is about biological essentialism through the lenses of far right ideology was not an invitation to yet another anti-feminist screed, dude.

Basic biology is "shit", good to know.

Get that word out of your mouth. You are not a biologist and your motivations are suspect.

Pretty simple. When progressives whine about an underrepresentation of muslims and use "proof" like how certain high status professions aren't representative of the population, point out half the population doesn't qualify to be included and its absurd to argue it's due to discrimination. Say "It's biology mate.". This usually provokes hysterics about calling a demographic biologically inferior, and that's the entire problem. The refusal to recognize reality due to dogma.

Dude, seriously, this was not an invitation for you to go on a rant about your disturbingly specific pet issues in a (frankly awful) attempt to cover over the worldviews we are talking about, which have nothing to do with your own (unless you've been full of shit all along and you are, in fact, far right).

Ban cousin marriage until the problem is resolved.

Meh.

[Conserative Morality]

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd have to rephrase the "classical liberal" part, insofar as it's not necessarily the "classical liberal" element that's the problem, but "classical liberals" and conservative libertarians who increasingly focus on "scientific", biologically essentialist ideas.

"Increasingly"

It's always attracted characters like that. They're just not bothering to use coded language anymore.

[Nova Cyberia]

Pepe teen DESTROYED by commie commenters lol

Pepe or Groyper or whatever the fuck the r/frenworld frog's name was ANNIHILATED by THE PEOPLE'S MILKSHAKES in another BRUTAL COMMIE INTERNET ATTACK lmao

Chapo needs to be fumigated, tbh.

[Torrocca]

Pepe or Groyper or whatever the fuck the r/frenworld frog's name was ANNIHILATED by THE PEOPLE'S MILKSHAKES in another BRUTAL COMMIE INTERNET ATTACK lmao

Chapo needs to be fumigated, tbh.

Ah, I see you're now breaking out full-fledged Nazi rhetoric regarding your enemies. Imagine my lack of surprise.

[Liriena]

Pepe or Groyper or whatever the fuck the r/frenworld frog's name was ANNIHILATED by THE PEOPLE'S MILKSHAKES in another BRUTAL COMMIE INTERNET ATTACK lmao

Chapo needs to be fumigated, tbh.

Why? Scared of virtual wedgies?

[Nova Cyberia]

Chapo needs to be fumigated, tbh.

Ah, I see you're now breaking out full-fledged Nazi rhetoric regarding your enemies. Imagine my lack of surprise.

Yes, gas an internet forum. Clearly that works.

[Nova Cyberia]

Chapo needs to be fumigated, tbh.

Why? Scared of virtual wedgies?

Just don't like idiot thugs who regularly break Reddit rules and openly call for violence.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So then, you see how saying "private property cannot exist without being protected/enforced, therefore it is not worth supporting," is no better of an argument than "free speech/right to life/freedom of assembly/freedom of religion/etc cannot exist without being enforced, therefore it is not worth supporting."

This has literally nothing to do with anything. Surely you can see for yourself that I never made the above argument or any variation thereof.

You said that private property was a statist construct using that logic. If private property is a statist construct, then so too is free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

[Liriena]

This has literally nothing to do with anything. Surely you can see for yourself that I never made the above argument or any variation thereof.

You said that private property was a statist construct using that logic. If private property is a statist construct, then so too is free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Well, yeah, they are. At least in terms of legally legitimized and enforceable human rights. You can certainly argue for a new way to legitimize and enforce them as an aspiration, though.

[Torrocca]

Ah, I see you're now breaking out full-fledged Nazi rhetoric regarding your enemies. Imagine my lack of surprise.

Yes, gas an internet forum. Clearly that works.

Ooh, and now you're just going to pretend it was """ironic""". Got any other unsurprising tactics up your sleeve?

[Duvniask]

This has literally nothing to do with anything. Surely you can see for yourself that I never made the above argument or any variation thereof.

You said that private property was a statist construct using that logic. If private property is a statist construct, then so too is free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Yes? There is no argument here.

You state this, which I have never said:
"So then, you see how saying "private property cannot exist without being protected/enforced, therefore it is not worth supporting"".

The bolded, the conclusion derived from the former part of the argument, is something I have never said. I argued that property rights are a statist construct yes, because that is an argument for why libertarian perceptions of property rights are flawed (they require the very thing they are so against, a contradiction it would seem). Any argument I could make against private property would not be an attack on the idea of rights only existing in so far as they are concrete and enforceable.

You're just pulling things out of thin air. I have no idea why, because it came out of nowhere and strikes me as a rather bizarre misunderstanding.

[Nova Cyberia]

Yes, gas an internet forum. Clearly that works.

Ooh, and now you're just going to pretend it was """ironic""". Got any other unsurprising tactics up your sleeve?

No, I'm going to claim your suggestion that I want to genocide an internet forum makes no sense.

[Torrocca]

Ooh, and now you're just going to pretend it was """ironic""". Got any other unsurprising tactics up your sleeve?

No, I'm going to claim your suggestion that I want to genocide an internet forum makes no sense.

Ooh, and now you're just going to outright deny the very thing you said. Even better.

[Nova Cyberia]

No, I'm going to claim your suggestion that I want to genocide an internet forum makes no sense.

Ooh, and now you're just going to outright deny the very thing you said. Even better.

This is what happens when you're a commie and you think all your opponents are evil.

[Torrocca]

Ooh, and now you're just going to outright deny the very thing you said. Even better.

This is what happens when you're a commie and you think all your opponents are evil.

Ooh, and now we're playing the "no u" card! Awesome!

[Ostroeuropa]

Sex differences exist and are part of the problem with the boys crisis in education, insistence on a blank slate theory (with women as the default and men being gaslit and told they're not doing it right) disadvantages boys by moulding education around female biology. This also impacts general behavior in men being pathologized due to feminist gynocentrism now being the norm in society. The problem is declaring there are no inherent biological differences while simultaneously declaring difference is down to mens thought patterns, akin to deciding that everything should be built around people who are 6 foot, inherent height differences being denied as existing, and shorter people being told its their own fault for being short and they should behave like tall people to grow more.

Me pointing out that the topic is about biological essentialism through the lenses of far right ideology was not an invitation to yet another anti-feminist screed, dude.

Basic biology is "shit", good to know.

Get that word out of your mouth. You are not a biologist and your motivations are suspect.

Pretty simple. When progressives whine about an underrepresentation of muslims and use "proof" like how certain high status professions aren't representative of the population, point out half the population doesn't qualify to be included and its absurd to argue it's due to discrimination. Say "It's biology mate.". This usually provokes hysterics about calling a demographic biologically inferior, and that's the entire problem. The refusal to recognize reality due to dogma.

Dude, seriously, this was not an invitation for you to go on a rant about your disturbingly specific pet issues in a (frankly awful) attempt to cover over the worldviews we are talking about, which have nothing to do with your own (unless you've been full of shit all along and you are, in fact, far right).

Ban cousin marriage until the problem is resolved.

Meh.

I'm pointing out that the rejection of these kind of issues is driving people to the extremes as nobody takes a moderate position on them like I do in an increasingly polarized society.

[Hanafuridake]

Ultra-nationalist officers and religious fanatics assassinating heads of financial cliques is “grifting?”

Uh, yeah. But, in this specific case, it's kinda hard to compare a millenarian group to a fascist government.

Could you explain how that was the case when there were active plans to murder leading capitalists? The League of Blood and other secret societies were ultra-nationalists trying to overthrow liberals and form a fascist government.

[Liriena]

Me pointing out that the topic is about biological essentialism through the lenses of far right ideology was not an invitation to yet another anti-feminist screed, dude.


Get that word out of your mouth. You are not a biologist and your motivations are suspect.


Dude, seriously, this was not an invitation for you to go on a rant about your disturbingly specific pet issues in a (frankly awful) attempt to cover over the worldviews we are talking about, which have nothing to do with your own (unless you've been full of shit all along and you are, in fact, far right).


Meh.

I'm pointing out that the rejection of these kind of issues

Which is not the topic? At best, it's a tangent.

is driving people to the extremes as nobody takes a moderate position on them like I do in an increasingly polarized society.

Do I need to link the post where you talked about building a coalition with fascists again?