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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:03 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:People can unionize, if they want, but if they start extorting their members or forcing them to vote in a certain way, this becomes intolerable.

Northern Davincia wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:People can unionize, if they want, but if they start extorting their members or forcing them to vote in a certain way, this becomes intolerable.

^
These are among my biggest issues with unions.


News at Eleven: Libertarians unironically support the Leftist viewpoint on Unions, continue to circlejerk about the "glories" of Capitalism despite it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:06 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:In a good union, administrators who do that would be swiftly dealt with behind the organisation's building. Unions by definition are meant to aid workers against hierarchical extortion, so it's completely oxymoronic for such a thing to continue happening. I'm happy it's not much of an issue in my country, despite having one of the largest union memberships in the west.

No, the purpose of unions is to simply look out for the collective interests of workers....you kinda need hierarchy to do that.

Who else knows best than the workers themselves?
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:06 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:People can unionize, if they want, but if they start extorting their members or forcing them to vote in a certain way, this becomes intolerable.

Northern Davincia wrote:^
These are among my biggest issues with unions.


News at Eleven: Libertarians unironically support the Leftist viewpoint on Unions, continue to circlejerk about the "glories" of Capitalism despite it.

Well put my guy
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:07 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:People can unionize, if they want, but if they start extorting their members or forcing them to vote in a certain way, this becomes intolerable.

Northern Davincia wrote:^
These are among my biggest issues with unions.


News at Eleven: Libertarians unironically support the Leftist viewpoint on Unions, continue to circlejerk about the "glories" of Capitalism despite it.

Goodness, I never would have imagined that there'd be a middle ground between right and left-libertarians.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:14 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:

News at Eleven: Libertarians unironically support the Leftist viewpoint on Unions, continue to circlejerk about the "glories" of Capitalism despite it.

Goodness, I never would have imagined that there'd be a middle ground between right and left-libertarians.

Right libertarians and broadly most radical left wing factions I'd say, since most of those tend to have very strict opinions on what Unions should or shouldn't do. We're excluding only the auth righties today boys.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:27 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Torrocca wrote:

News at Eleven: Libertarians unironically support the Leftist viewpoint on Unions, continue to circlejerk about the "glories" of Capitalism despite it.

Well put my guy


Girl*.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Well put my guy


Girl*.

Gurl*.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:30 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Well put my guy


Girl*.

Oh wait you transitioned? Or I have really bad memory. I really do miss shit by disappearing for years. I'll be sure to remember from now, sorry!
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:35 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:No, the purpose of unions is to simply look out for the collective interests of workers....you kinda need hierarchy to do that.

Who else knows best than the workers themselves?

Perhaps their specific individual interests, a union isn't about individual interests, but the interest of the collective of the workers the union represents as a whole, it requires a hierarchy to keep it in focus...same with society in general.
Last edited by Cappuccina on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9518
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:43 pm

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:That's all of political youtube though

Yeah, kinda. I'm glad that some breadtubers have moved away from stuff like responses to other Youtubers and Youtube drama.

What's wrong with response videos?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9518
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:45 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:That's all of political youtube though

Bit of a broad brush you're painting with there, mate.

Not much less of a broad brush than "That's all of anti-SJW YouTube."
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8823
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:53 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Who else knows best than the workers themselves?

Perhaps their specific individual interests, a union isn't about individual interests, but the interest of the collective of the workers the union represents as a whole, it requires a hierarchy to keep it in focus...same with society in general.

Aye, which is the interests of their coworkers aswell. What makes you think one factory worker has different needs to another?
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American. From the River to the Sea.
Equality, Fatherland, Socialism
I am not available on the weekends

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:59 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Perhaps their specific individual interests, a union isn't about individual interests, but the interest of the collective of the workers the union represents as a whole, it requires a hierarchy to keep it in focus...same with society in general.

Aye, which is the interests of their coworkers aswell. What makes you think one factory worker has different needs to another?


Well, the human condition isn't really the same for any two or more given people, so there's that. BUT, with that said, factory workers (and really any worker ever) isn't going to have different needs economically, which is exactly why unions are a perfect solution for workers to have.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Perhaps their specific individual interests, a union isn't about individual interests, but the interest of the collective of the workers the union represents as a whole, it requires a hierarchy to keep it in focus...same with society in general.

Aye, which is the interests of their coworkers aswell. What makes you think one factory worker has different needs to another?

Individuals will always have they're own pet peeves that differ somewhat from others, individuals however often fail to see the big picture.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61261
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:10 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Girl*.

Oh wait you transitioned? Or I have really bad memory. I really do miss shit by disappearing for years. I'll be sure to remember from now, sorry!

Just call everyone "dude" and "bruh" like I do, it'll save you trouble. :lol:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Oh wait you transitioned? Or I have really bad memory. I really do miss shit by disappearing for years. I'll be sure to remember from now, sorry!

Just call everyone "dude" and "bruh" like I do, it'll save you trouble. :lol:


... Nah though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61261
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:13 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Just call everyone "dude" and "bruh" like I do, it'll save you trouble. :lol:


... Nah though.

I unironically call even my sister "dude", lol. Just a habit, I sound like a 90's surfboarder when I talk. It's not to misgender, just I've called people "dude" and "bruh" for so long that it's my default for most people.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:19 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
... Nah though.

I unironically call even my sister "dude", lol. Just a habit, I sound like a 90's surfboarder when I talk. It's not to misgender, just I've called people "dude" and "bruh" for so long that it's my default for most people.


Meh, fair I guess, but still. Best not to do it if someone asks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61261
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Luminesa wrote:I unironically call even my sister "dude", lol. Just a habit, I sound like a 90's surfboarder when I talk. It's not to misgender, just I've called people "dude" and "bruh" for so long that it's my default for most people.


Meh, fair I guess, but still. Best not to do it if someone asks.

As far as I know nobody has told me that saying "dude" is offensive, even other girls.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Freakoland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Freakoland » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:07 pm

Do y'all think it'd be cool to terraform Mars?

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Freakoland wrote:Do y'all think it'd be cool to terraform Mars?

I think it'd be a waste of time. Mars won't ever be habitable in the way Earth is, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11984
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:19 pm

Freakoland wrote:Do y'all think it'd be cool to terraform Mars?

Sure, but not at the expense of this world's impoverished. We shall do it because we have finally achieved Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism, and not a moment before.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11984
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:20 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:People can unionize, if they want, but if they start extorting their members or forcing them to vote in a certain way, this becomes intolerable.

Nobody ever joins a union if it means they're going to be taking home less cash. This is anti-union nonsense. It may surprise you to learn that leftists really hate shitty corrupt unions.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Freakoland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Freakoland » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Freakoland wrote:Do y'all think it'd be cool to terraform Mars?

I think it'd be a waste of time. Mars won't ever be habitable in the way Earth is, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

What about terraforming the Sahara ?

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Freakoland wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:I think it'd be a waste of time. Mars won't ever be habitable in the way Earth is, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

What about terraforming the Sahara ?

Also a waste of time and possibly detrimental to the global climate. The Sahara is like that for a reason, terraforming it could have a cooling effect on the world's climate, not necessarily a good thing. I'm not a fan of terraforming in general, tbh.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

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