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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:55 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:How I'm wondering what a social justice wizard would be like.

They're referred to as SJMs, but:
Social Justice Mages are your primary DPS class. They work with philosophy, law, and public relations, and, as such, they need very high Int to be effective. Their job is to attempt to do the real heavy lifting in trying to shift the ground in the society. I mean, obviously, that's what EVERYBODY is doing -- that's the point -- but they're the main DPS in it. SJMs include people like bell hooks, Lawrence Lessig, Justice Sotomayor, and the EFF. Anita Sarkeesian is the ultimate SJM. If the bad guys are specifically trying to get you, you're probably an SJM-- they try to get Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn.


For reference, the article that's from is here: https://xiphias.livejournal.com/788434.html

I'm a Social Justice Warrior since I'm good at tanking and drawing aggro away from others, Grenartia is a good example of a Social Justice Mage, Torra is easily a Social Justice Rogue because of her skill at "Satire and Mockery", and for Social Justice Cleric, who better than Valentine Z?
Last edited by First American Empire on Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:56 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:It would be easier to create that kind of environment if the rich weren't hoarding a vast amount of the wealth in the country.

The rich reinvest their wealth. If the common folk saved their money, rather than be encouraged to spend it by Keynesian economists, that environment would exist already.

The common people don't make enough money to save it, and if they didn't spend it, then the entire economic system would collapse. Do you know anything at all about the modern economy?
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:The more I read about the appalling conditions in companies and how they hoard wealth in tax havens, I become more convinced that cooperatives are the solution.

Cooperatives and workplace democracy should definitely be the endgoal. For now, stronger unions, regulations that make collective bargaining easier, and pass laws against union busting.

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First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:It would be easier to create that kind of environment if the rich weren't hoarding a vast amount of the wealth in the country.

The rich reinvest their wealth. If the common folk saved their money, rather than be encouraged to spend it by Keynesian economists, that environment would exist already.


If the common people saved their money like the rich do, there would be no more economy. Our economy is built off consumer spending. All the investment in the world won't matter if there are no customers. The rich do nothing with their fortunes, and their wealth should be given to people who will actually make use of it.
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:02 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:The rich reinvest their wealth.

Lol where

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:The rich reinvest their wealth.

Lol where

Obviously, in Ancapistan.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

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Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:06 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:It would be easier to create that kind of environment if the rich weren't hoarding a vast amount of the wealth in the country.

The rich reinvest their wealth. If the common folk saved their money, rather than be encouraged to spend it by Keynesian economists, that environment would exist already.


Is that why EA has a history of hiding millions of dollars in tax havens and pressuring workers to work overtime without pay?
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:08 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:The rich reinvest their wealth. If the common folk saved their money, rather than be encouraged to spend it by Keynesian economists, that environment would exist already.


Is that why EA has a history of hiding millions of dollars in tax havens and pressuring workers to work overtime without pay?

The AAA gaming industry is the greatest argument against capitalism there is.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:09 pm

Kowani wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Is that why EA has a history of hiding millions of dollars in tax havens and pressuring workers to work overtime without pay?

The AAA gaming industry is the greatest argument against capitalism there is.


I follow TGJS Theory.

Thank God for Jim Sterling.
Last edited by Hanafuridake on Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:10 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Kowani wrote:The AAA gaming industry is the greatest argument against capitalism there is.


Thank God for Jim Sterling.

Indeed.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:51 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Kowani wrote:The AAA gaming industry is the greatest argument against capitalism there is.


I follow TGJS Theory.

Thank God for Jim Sterling.

Is thanking god for Jim Fucking Sterling Son considered praxis?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:53 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:The rich reinvest their wealth. If the common folk saved their money, rather than be encouraged to spend it by Keynesian economists, that environment would exist already.


Is that why EA has a history of hiding millions of dollars in tax havens and pressuring workers to work overtime without pay?

Also, companies like EA reporting record profits and still laying off hundreds of workers because their stock-holders wanted more.

Oh, and let's not forget that EA did to Visceral.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Liriena wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
I follow TGJS Theory.

Thank God for Jim Sterling.

Is thanking god for Jim Fucking Sterling Son considered praxis?


It better be or I'll purge this whole thread.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:The rich reinvest their wealth.

Lol where

Well, if you're a Koch, you invest it in PR and marketing... I mean "think thanks", that teach poor people that you're actually the good guys and you deserve every penny and their fellow poors are scum.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:55 pm

I'm also gonna echo Jim Sterling in saying that I'm still pissed for what they did to Zhang He.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:04 pm

Liriena wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Lol where

Well, if you're a Koch, you invest it in PR and marketing... I mean "think thanks", that teach poor people that you're actually the good guys and you deserve every penny and their fellow poors are scum.

Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:05 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:Well, if you're a Koch, you invest it in PR and marketing... I mean "think thanks", that teach poor people that you're actually the good guys and you deserve every penny and their fellow poors are scum.

Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.

My sorosbucks are waaaaaaay overdue. :(
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:07 pm

Liriena wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.

My sorosbucks are waaaaaaay overdue. :(

I'll talk to management. That's illegal under our collectively bargained agreements.

Because Georgy believes in strong unions. ;)

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Historians would say that history does repeat itself without external influence, much in the way that an object acting under classical mechanical conditions would follow Newton's first law.

Indeed.


Not to tout my credentials. However, as someone with a Ph.D. in sociology and history, I can confidently say that any historian who would make that claim among other historians would be assumed to be making a joke.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:11 pm

Kowani wrote:Quality is unimportant if the majority of the population can’t access it.


In the U.S., there are two kind of medicine: medicine for the masses and medicine for the wealthy. The first type is very bad, but the second type isn't that great either.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:46 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:Well, if you're a Koch, you invest it in PR and marketing... I mean "think thanks", that teach poor people that you're actually the good guys and you deserve every penny and their fellow poors are scum.

Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.


You guys are getting paid?
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45970
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:Well, if you're a Koch, you invest it in PR and marketing... I mean "think thanks", that teach poor people that you're actually the good guys and you deserve every penny and their fellow poors are scum.

Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.


The worst bit about being a double agent is that I'm only paid in icepicks and lengthened knife blades sent through the post.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:13 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Thank God big boss George Soros actually reinvests his wealth by paying all of us lefty shitposters - and above minimum wage, too.


The worst bit about being a double agent is that I'm only paid in icepicks and lengthened knife blades sent through the post.

I always you knew a rotten Trotsky killer.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:14 am

Kowani wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Yes. Every collective contains individuals. That's what I'm saying.

I believe that my point soared over your head, then.

I am pretty dumb like that, ngl.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:14 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:But are you an SJW or do you just support social justice?

This could have been the worst discussion here ever if it wasn't co-opted by comrades talking about D&D classes. Well done.

In what direction were you worried it could have gone?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

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