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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

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Kowani
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Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 4:51 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:One only needs to surgically remove the troublesome parts.

If you do not live in a nation that practices Shariah law, they are not troublesome parts to you.

Ignoring immigration, globalized capitalism, instability in those regions…
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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun May 19, 2019 4:57 pm

Kowani wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:If you do not live in a nation that practices Shariah law, they are not troublesome parts to you.

Ignoring immigration, globalized capitalism, instability in those regions…

Shariah law predates global capitalism, modern levels of regional instability, and the outpouring of migrants. In theory, a nation can practice Shariah law and be stable, while also retaining its population.
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Kowani
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Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 4:59 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring immigration, globalized capitalism, instability in those regions…

Shariah law predates global capitalism, modern levels of regional instability, and the outpouring of migrants. In theory, a nation can practice Shariah law and be stable, while also retaining its population.

And yet it is affected by all of them, or rather, the spread of it is.
In theory. How’s that practice coming.
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Northern Davincia
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Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun May 19, 2019 5:05 pm

Kowani wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Shariah law predates global capitalism, modern levels of regional instability, and the outpouring of migrants. In theory, a nation can practice Shariah law and be stable, while also retaining its population.

And yet it is affected by all of them, or rather, the spread of it is.
In theory. How’s that practice coming.

Egypt is doing relatively alright for itself.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Kowani
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Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 5:06 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:And yet it is affected by all of them, or rather, the spread of it is.
In theory. How’s that practice coming.

Egypt is doing relatively alright for itself.

A true success story, with one country.
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Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 6:22 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:And yet it is affected by all of them, or rather, the spread of it is.
In theory. How’s that practice coming.

Egypt is doing relatively alright for itself.

Egypt is pretty unstable and violent.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 7:35 pm

Kowani wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Egypt is doing relatively alright for itself.

A true success story, with one country.

I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Sun May 19, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Proctopeo
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Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun May 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Kowani wrote:A true success story, with one country.

I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Tunisia seems to be the only North African country doing well for itself, and not screwing over its people in the process.
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Kowani
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Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 7:39 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Kowani wrote:A true success story, with one country.

I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Oh, I was being sarcastic.
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Pasong Tirad
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Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 7:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Oh, I was being sarcastic.

Ah, apologies then. So it was just ND praising authoritarians again.

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Tunisia seems to be the only North African country doing well for itself, and not screwing over its people in the process.

And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Proctopeo
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Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Tunisia seems to be the only North African country doing well for itself, and not screwing over its people in the process.

And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.

Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 8:23 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.

Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.

Referring to Brunei, I imagine?
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Pasong Tirad
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Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.

Referring to Brunei, I imagine?

And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Referring to Brunei, I imagine?

And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

Don't know much about Kuwait - is it the same way?
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Pasong Tirad
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Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

Don't know much about Kuwait - is it the same way?

Not all too familiar. Bahrain and Qatar are the most striking for me personally. Qatari employers can literally take passports from foreign migrants.

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Kowani
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Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 8:45 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh, I was being sarcastic.

Ah, apologies then. So it was just ND praising authoritarians again.

Ironically, yes.
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58535
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 am

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/a ... 086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon May 20, 2019 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Mon May 20, 2019 6:18 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.

Great! Now just put it into practice.
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Evil Dictators Happyland
Senator
 
Posts: 3518
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 6:23 am

Epicurustan wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.

Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

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Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Mon May 20, 2019 6:24 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Epicurustan wrote:Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Don't worry, they too will receive a basic income.
LEGALIZED MARIJUANA 2020
Philosophy and Religion student. Epicurean, Taoist.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

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Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 20, 2019 8:45 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Epicurustan wrote:Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1380
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kavagrad » Mon May 20, 2019 9:07 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

Away, liberal! Away!
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West Leas Oros 2
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon May 20, 2019 1:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!
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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 20, 2019 2:29 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!

Not sure what your point is or why you quoted my post.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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