LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Soviet Tankistan]

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

Anyone who tries to act as a cultural gatekeeper or elitist for nonconformist clout, regardless of the artform, is doing art a disservice.

Not to mention the fact that this idea that "good" art is the arcane, carefully cultivated and exclusive art, while popular art, the art of the masses, is "bad" art, is pure liberalism (more specifically, classical bourgeois liberalism).

The art of the masses can be for the people, not just the liberal bourgeoisie. It just isn’t.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

Anyone who tries to act as a cultural gatekeeper or elitist for nonconformist clout, regardless of the artform, is doing art a disservice.

Not to mention the fact that this idea that "good" art is the arcane, carefully cultivated and exclusive art, while popular art, the art of the masses, is "bad" art, is pure liberalism (more specifically, classical bourgeois liberalism).

Liberalism and elitism are two very different things which are more often than not opposites.

[Liriena]

Oh, and lest we forget... motherflerking Pink Floyd.

Did somebody say Pink Floyd?

The Trial scene is still one of my favorite animated sequences of all time.

[Soviet Tankistan]

I’m not a non-conformist, I just haven’t been molded into the ‘right’ mindset by the capitalists. There may be others like me or not, but that doesn’t make a difference in my mind.

Hegemony, affirmative culture, the culture industry... yeah, that stuff is real, but you can't just stubbornly cling to the deeply pessimistic and waaaaaaaay too broad and pretentious outlook of people like Theodor Adorno. Just because music is now mostly created under capitalism doesn't mean that all of it is mediocre, and I'd be willing to wager that your experience with contemporary music has been limited at best, probably by your own choice.

You can remain aware and critical of the conditions that produce art while also maintaining a curiosity and an openness of mind towards the individual pieces of art and individual artists. Or are you also going to off-handedly dismiss artists of the film industry like Boots Riley on the basis of the American film industry being a capitalist one?

I have seen modern music, by introduction of friends that are in to it, and different genres. The film industry is better, but declining for other reasons. Capitalism makes movies hard to watch for the poor.

[Uiiop]

Hegemony, affirmative culture, the culture industry... yeah, that stuff is real, but you can't just stubbornly cling to the deeply pessimistic and waaaaaaaay too broad and pretentious outlook of people like Theodor Adorno. Just because music is now mostly created under capitalism doesn't mean that all of it is mediocre, and I'd be willing to wager that your experience with contemporary music has been limited at best, probably by your own choice.

You can remain aware and critical of the conditions that produce art while also maintaining a curiosity and an openness of mind towards the individual pieces of art and individual artists. Or are you also going to off-handedly dismiss artists of the film industry like Boots Riley on the basis of the American film industry being a capitalist one?

I have seen modern music, by introduction of friends that are in to it, and different genres. The film industry is better, but declining for other reasons. Capitalism makes movies hard to watch for the poor.

And how do you know what your friends like is actually a representative sample?

[Liriena]

Anyone who tries to act as a cultural gatekeeper or elitist for nonconformist clout, regardless of the artform, is doing art a disservice.

Not to mention the fact that this idea that "good" art is the arcane, carefully cultivated and exclusive art, while popular art, the art of the masses, is "bad" art, is pure liberalism (more specifically, classical bourgeois liberalism).

Liberalism and elitism are two very different things which are more often than not opposites.

Yeeeeees buuuuuuut historians (far smarter and more educated than me) have spoken at length about how, in the midst of the liberal revolutions and the industrial revolution, and in their aftermath, there was a distinct change in how people, but specially the new ruling classes, thought about art and culture. And one of the most significant changes was the division of culture in modern societies into "high culture" and "popular culture". This is a form of cultural gatekeeping that we still see alive and well even today in multiple artforms: the distinction between art films or Oscar bait and all other genres, the distinction between Broadway and off-Broadway, and the purposeful obscurity in some works of art that get displayed in galleries that makes them only accessible and comprehensible for a selected few.

[Soviet Tankistan]

I have seen modern music, by introduction of friends that are in to it, and different genres. The film industry is better, but declining for other reasons. Capitalism makes movies hard to watch for the poor.

And how do you know what your friends like is actually a representative sample?

I assume a several person pool along with many others that have said their music choices is enough for a casual survey.

[Uiiop]

And how do you know what your friends like is actually a representative sample?

I assume a several person pool along with many others that have said their music choices is enough for a casual survey.

I'm not sure that "Many" is "Many" enough.

Lot of music out there even if you narrow things down to the "Industry". Plenty more people into it to.

[Soviet Tankistan]

I assume a several person pool along with many others that have said their music choices is enough for a casual survey.

I'm not that "Many" is "Many" enough.

Lot of music out there even if you narrow things down to the "Industry". Plenty more people into it to.

I don’t feel like asking 100 people on the street for good songs.

[Uiiop]

I'm not that "Many" is "Many" enough.

Lot of music out there even if you narrow things down to the "Industry". Plenty more people into it to.

I don’t feel like asking 100 people on the street for good songs.

You don't. But you got us.
Other than what Liri said i would say To Pimp a Butterfly is pretty good.

Toxicity is older but also pretty good.

[Liriena]

I'm not that "Many" is "Many" enough.

Lot of music out there even if you narrow things down to the "Industry". Plenty more people into it to.

I don’t feel like asking 100 people on the street for good songs.

As I said: David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Joanna Newsom, Janelle Monae, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, basically the entirety of Pink Floyd's repertoire... and maybe Nirvana's Nevermind and Green Day's American Idiot.

Oh, and Stephen Sondheim. Pretty much anything by Stephen Sondheim. That dude is the patron saint of of underrated Broadway musicals.

[Liriena]

I don’t feel like asking 100 people on the street for good songs.

As I said: David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Joanna Newsom, Janelle Monae, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, basically the entirety of Pink Floyd's repertoire... and maybe Nirvana's Nevermind and Green Day's American Idiot.

Oh, and Stephen Sondheim. Pretty much anything by Stephen Sondheim. That dude is the patron saint of of underrated Broadway musicals.

Speaking of Joanna Newsom... "Cosmia" makes me feel stuff. I don't know what stuff exactly, but it's certainly sublime stuff.

[Proctopeo]

I don’t feel like asking 100 people on the street for good songs.

As I said: David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Joanna Newsom, Janelle Monae, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, basically the entirety of Pink Floyd's repertoire... and maybe Nirvana's Nevermind and Green Day's American Idiot.

Oh, and Stephen Sondheim. Pretty much anything by Stephen Sondheim. That dude is the patron saint of of great lyrics.

I personally can't take Green Day remotely seriously since they spawned the quintessential "I'm 14 and this is deep"/"edgy on purpose" song, and it's not even that good a song.

As for my suggestions, many of them are rooted in the 70s and 80s (thanks, SiriusXM), so I'm not sure if they'd be of any help.

[Liriena]

As I said: David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Joanna Newsom, Janelle Monae, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, basically the entirety of Pink Floyd's repertoire... and maybe Nirvana's Nevermind and Green Day's American Idiot.

Oh, and Stephen Sondheim. Pretty much anything by Stephen Sondheim. That dude is the patron saint of of great lyrics.

I personally can't take Green Day remotely seriously since they spawned the quintessential "I'm 14 and this is deep"/"edgy on purpose" song, and it's not even that good a song.

As for my suggestions, many of them are rooted in the 70s and 80s (thanks, SiriusXM), so I'm not sure if they'd be of any help.

If your suggestions include ELO or Poison, we're good

As for Green Day... but be fair, it was the early 2000s. The world looked like crap and everyone wanted to be the biggest, darkest cynic about it. "American Idiot", the song, still slaps though... but I do think that "King for a day" is better if only because it's probably the only song about a girly bisexual boy doing crossdressing that punks and metalheads sing along and do pogo to.

[Proctopeo]

I personally can't take Green Day remotely seriously since they spawned the quintessential "I'm 14 and this is deep"/"edgy on purpose" song, and it's not even that good a song.

As for my suggestions, many of them are rooted in the 70s and 80s (thanks, SiriusXM), so I'm not sure if they'd be of any help.

If your suggestions include ELO or Poison, we're good

As for Green Day... but be fair, it was the early 2000s. The world looked like crap and everyone wanted to be the biggest, darkest cynic about it. "American Idiot", the song, still slaps though... but I do think that "King for a day" is better if only because it's probably the only song about a girly bisexual boy doing crossdressing that punks and metalheads sing along and do pogo to.

The Johnny Test theme song is better than American Idiot tbqh famalam
honestly all I've heard from Green Day is fake-deep hard-edgy stuff so honestly I'm not a fan

Also, yeah, Electric Light Orchestra is good.

[Cekoviu]

The best music comes from The Tragically Hip, Guster, The Decemberists, Tinariwen, and obviously Weird Al.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

If your suggestions include ELO or Poison, we're good

As for Green Day... but be fair, it was the early 2000s. The world looked like crap and everyone wanted to be the biggest, darkest cynic about it. "American Idiot", the song, still slaps though... but I do think that "King for a day" is better if only because it's probably the only song about a girly bisexual boy doing crossdressing that punks and metalheads sing along and do pogo to.

The Johnny Test theme song is better than American Idiot tbqh famalam
honestly all I've heard from Green Day is fake-deep hard-edgy stuff so honestly I'm not a fan

Also, yeah, Electric Light Orchestra is good.

I don't think all of Green Day is fake deep edgy stuff, a lot of it is them singing about just being a wreck (Burnout, Basket Case, Brain Stew, The Grouch, Deadbeat Holiday etc). Which I like because I relate to. ecks dee

[Conserative Morality]

The best music comes from The Tragically Hip, Guster, The Decemberists, Tinariwen, and obviously Weird Al.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Liberalism and elitism are two very different things which are more often than not opposites.

Yeeeeees buuuuuuut historians (far smarter and more educated than me) have spoken at length about how, in the midst of the liberal revolutions and the industrial revolution, and in their aftermath, there was a distinct change in how people, but specially the new ruling classes, thought about art and culture. And one of the most significant changes was the division of culture in modern societies into "high culture" and "popular culture". This is a form of cultural gatekeeping that we still see alive and well even today in multiple artforms: the distinction between art films or Oscar bait and all other genres, the distinction between Broadway and off-Broadway, and the purposeful obscurity in some works of art that get displayed in galleries that makes them only accessible and comprehensible for a selected few.

Yes, but that phenomenon far predates liberalism.

[Cekoviu]

The best music comes from The Tragically Hip, Guster, The Decemberists, Tinariwen, and obviously Weird Al.

Nice to see another fan!

[Duhon]

Speaking of culture, might as well pose this question given that I've dropped this by RWDT: what does LWDT think of Orban's Hungary?

[Cekoviu]

Speaking of culture, might as well pose this question given that I've dropped this by RWDT: what does LWDT think of Orban's Hungary?

Horrible, awful, terrible, etc.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Favorite musicians are Bob Dylan, Gordon Lightfoot, Billy Joel, Jim Croce, and Al Stewart. I really like ballads, as you might could tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZc7ZQURMs <--- Probably my favorite song

[Pasong Tirad]

It's just such an ahistorical argument to point to hip hop and shout about cultural decay, in my view, given hip hop's history within the music scene.

[Conserative Morality]

Death Grips is the pinnacle of musical achievement.