LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine not thinking that rap had music behind it.

Imagine making rap when your culture invented jazz and rock (although rock became too rebellious quickly).

Imagine thinking that your taste is the only good one.

And what do you mean by "too rebellious"?

[Soviet Tankistan]

Imagine making rap when your culture invented jazz and rock (although rock became too rebellious quickly).

Imagine thinking that your taste is the only good one.

And what do you mean by "too rebellious"?

The themes of removing the racist hierarchy was something I can agree with. The part that was too rebellious was the quick move towards talking about crime and drugs.

[Kowani]

Imagine not thinking that rap had music behind it.

Imagine making rap when your culture invented jazz and rock (although rock became too rebellious quickly).

It’s not like the circumstances behind each one are totally different... Or the fact that they came from different subcultures.

[New haven america]

You don't have to diss hip hop to make a point.

Hip hop has always been bad, but it’s gotten worse for sure. Culture is collapsing and being replaced with mass consumer standardized excuses for art designed only to make money. I would say it was not too bad before it was mainstream, although it is not acceptable any more. Appreciation for real art has been lacking and that’s disappointing. Liberals and capitalism are the causes of this.

The 50's called, they'd like their fearmongering and corporate music claims back.

[Hanafuridake]

You don't have to diss hip hop to make a point.

Hip hop has always been bad, but it’s gotten worse for sure. Culture is collapsing and being replaced with mass consumer standardized excuses for art designed only to make money. I would say it was not too bad before it was mainstream, although it is not acceptable any more. Appreciation for real art has been lacking and that’s disappointing. Liberals and capitalism are the causes of this.

Hip hop exists because people like the music, which is why capitalist companies support artists. It's the same reason that any form of art has been supported through the ages. As much as I would like a return to Greek statues and poetry contests, it's not going to happen.

[Soviet Tankistan]

Hip hop has always been bad, but it’s gotten worse for sure. Culture is collapsing and being replaced with mass consumer standardized excuses for art designed only to make money. I would say it was not too bad before it was mainstream, although it is not acceptable any more. Appreciation for real art has been lacking and that’s disappointing. Liberals and capitalism are the causes of this.

The 50's called, they'd like their fearmongering and corporate music claims back.

The corporations are trying to control all music, even fair use of it. Look at youtube.

[Uiiop]

The 50's called, they'd like their fearmongering and corporate music claims back.

The corporations are trying to control all music, even fair use of it. Look at youtube.

If you actually looked at how music is nowadays if that's really the case they're failing at it.
Even to a certain extent "Mainstream music".

[Duhon]

C'mon, most rap sucks, but you can't use it to blame liberals and capitalists for the "collapse" of culture.

Liberal backed movements are the origin of many tasteless genres, country is one of the exceptions. Instead of making bad things to make yourself feel special, people who are oppressed should take inspiration from master pieces and have music that is for the people always and never for the profit hungry corporations. Even feudal times had better music, the musicians were payed to make art rather than leech off masses and turn them into brainwashed consumers. The thought is not “how can I compose the best music possible” or “what music will benefit the people” but “how can I make money.” People now listen to bad music to feel special and still included. ‘Artists’ now make music to prepare the populace for decades of musical mediocrity and low standards so they will continue to profit. Thanks to capitalism, culture is in sharp decline. It is evident everywhere to the truly observant. The first problem is that few are observant, instead they are brainwashed by capitalism. The second is that even the observant often misidentify the cause.

If you go back far enough, the only tasteful genres are... tribal musics, I guess.

[Soviet Tankistan]

Liberal backed movements are the origin of many tasteless genres, country is one of the exceptions. Instead of making bad things to make yourself feel special, people who are oppressed should take inspiration from master pieces and have music that is for the people always and never for the profit hungry corporations. Even feudal times had better music, the musicians were payed to make art rather than leech off masses and turn them into brainwashed consumers. The thought is not “how can I compose the best music possible” or “what music will benefit the people” but “how can I make money.” People now listen to bad music to feel special and still included. ‘Artists’ now make music to prepare the populace for decades of musical mediocrity and low standards so they will continue to profit. Thanks to capitalism, culture is in sharp decline. It is evident everywhere to the truly observant. The first problem is that few are observant, instead they are brainwashed by capitalism. The second is that even the observant often misidentify the cause.

If you go back far enough, the only tasteful genres are... tribal musics, I guess.

Tribal music is okay but I like the music farther down in history than that.

[Duhon]

Won't do -- too liberal, yo.

[Soviet Tankistan]

Won't do -- too liberal, yo.

What?

[Duhon]

Won't do -- too liberal, yo.

What?

Anything more liberal than tribal musics is by definition tasteless. Ars nova, opera, the whole Viennese heritage, Anglo-American music, et cetera.

You said so yourself.

[Soviet Tankistan]

What?

Anything more liberal than tribal musics is by definition tasteless. Ars nova, opera, the whole Viennese heritage, Anglo-American music, et cetera.

You said so yourself.

No, I didn’t. Do you mind making an actual statement of truth?

[Duhon]

Anything more liberal than tribal musics is by definition tasteless. Ars nova, opera, the whole Viennese heritage, Anglo-American music, et cetera.

You said so yourself.

No, I didn’t. Do you mind making an actual statement of truth?

I did quote what you said in affirmation earlier. It was literally the first sentence.

[Liriena]

C'mon, most rap sucks, but you can't use it to blame liberals and capitalists for the "collapse" of culture.

Liberal backed movements are the origin of many tasteless genres, country is one of the exceptions. Instead of making bad things to make yourself feel special, people who are oppressed should take inspiration from master pieces and have music that is for the people always and never for the profit hungry corporations. Even feudal times had better music, the musicians were payed to make art rather than leech off masses and turn them into brainwashed consumers. The thought is not “how can I compose the best music possible” or “what music will benefit the people” but “how can I make money.” People now listen to bad music to feel special and still included. ‘Artists’ now make music to prepare the populace for decades of musical mediocrity and low standards so they will continue to profit. Thanks to capitalism, culture is in sharp decline. It is evident everywhere to the truly observant. The first problem is that few are observant, instead they are brainwashed by capitalism. The second is that even the observant often misidentify the cause.

David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Janelle Monae, Joanna Newsom and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

I rest my case.

[Soviet Tankistan]

No, I didn’t. Do you mind making an actual statement of truth?

I did quote what you said in affirmation earlier. It was literally the first sentence.

I didn’t. I don’t appreciate lies.

[Liriena]

I honestly have a hard time taking people who point to contemporary music as proof of cultural decay seriously, even if they claim to do so from a left-wing anti-capitalist perspective. Contemporary music does exist within a capitalist mode of production and that absolutely affects the entire art, but that does not mean that the art as a whole is becoming mediocre or that contemporary artists are all just alienated workers with no genuine creativity. And I find it quite difficult to believe that the people who make such claims have even attempted to actually delve into contemporary music, instead of just acting like medievalist hipsters and dismissing the entirety of it because it's what the cool, rad kids do.

[Cekoviu]

I honestly have a hard time taking people who point to contemporary music as proof of cultural decay seriously, even if they claim to do so from a left-wing anti-capitalist perspective. Contemporary music does exist within a capitalist mode of production and that absolutely affects the entire art, but that does not mean that the art as a whole is becoming mediocre or that contemporary artists are all just alienated workers with no genuine creativity. And I find it quite difficult to believe that the people who make such claims have even attempted to actually delve into contemporary music, instead of just acting like medievalist hipsters and dismissing the entirety of it because it's what the cool, rad kids do.

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

[Liriena]

Liberal backed movements are the origin of many tasteless genres, country is one of the exceptions. Instead of making bad things to make yourself feel special, people who are oppressed should take inspiration from master pieces and have music that is for the people always and never for the profit hungry corporations. Even feudal times had better music, the musicians were payed to make art rather than leech off masses and turn them into brainwashed consumers. The thought is not “how can I compose the best music possible” or “what music will benefit the people” but “how can I make money.” People now listen to bad music to feel special and still included. ‘Artists’ now make music to prepare the populace for decades of musical mediocrity and low standards so they will continue to profit. Thanks to capitalism, culture is in sharp decline. It is evident everywhere to the truly observant. The first problem is that few are observant, instead they are brainwashed by capitalism. The second is that even the observant often misidentify the cause.

David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Janelle Monae, Joanna Newsom and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

I rest my case.

Oh, and lest we forget... motherflerking Pink Floyd.

[Liriena]

I honestly have a hard time taking people who point to contemporary music as proof of cultural decay seriously, even if they claim to do so from a left-wing anti-capitalist perspective. Contemporary music does exist within a capitalist mode of production and that absolutely affects the entire art, but that does not mean that the art as a whole is becoming mediocre or that contemporary artists are all just alienated workers with no genuine creativity. And I find it quite difficult to believe that the people who make such claims have even attempted to actually delve into contemporary music, instead of just acting like medievalist hipsters and dismissing the entirety of it because it's what the cool, rad kids do.

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

Anyone who tries to act as a cultural gatekeeper or elitist for nonconformist clout, regardless of the artform, is doing art a disservice.

Not to mention the fact that this idea that "good" art is the arcane, carefully cultivated and exclusive art, while popular art, the art of the masses, is "bad" art, is pure liberalism (more specifically, classical bourgeois liberalism).

[Soviet Tankistan]

I honestly have a hard time taking people who point to contemporary music as proof of cultural decay seriously, even if they claim to do so from a left-wing anti-capitalist perspective. Contemporary music does exist within a capitalist mode of production and that absolutely affects the entire art, but that does not mean that the art as a whole is becoming mediocre or that contemporary artists are all just alienated workers with no genuine creativity. And I find it quite difficult to believe that the people who make such claims have even attempted to actually delve into contemporary music, instead of just acting like medievalist hipsters and dismissing the entirety of it because it's what the cool, rad kids do.

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

I’m not a non-conformist, I just haven’t been molded into the ‘right’ mindset by the capitalists. There may be others like me or not, but that doesn’t make a difference in my mind.

[Cekoviu]

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

I’m not a non-conformist, I just haven’t been molded into the ‘right’ mindset by the capitalists. There may be others like me, but that doesn’t make a difference in my mind.

Keep telling yourself that.

[Soviet Tankistan]

I honestly have a hard time taking people who point to contemporary music as proof of cultural decay seriously, even if they claim to do so from a left-wing anti-capitalist perspective. Contemporary music does exist within a capitalist mode of production and that absolutely affects the entire art, but that does not mean that the art as a whole is becoming mediocre or that contemporary artists are all just alienated workers with no genuine creativity. And I find it quite difficult to believe that the people who make such claims have even attempted to actually delve into contemporary music, instead of just acting like medievalist hipsters and dismissing the entirety of it because it's what the cool, rad kids do.

Medievalist hipsters sound terrifying and I don’t want to be one. The dark ages were a terrible time to live and the workers had no rights.

[Hammer Britannia]

David Bowie, Florence + The Machine, Janelle Monae, Joanna Newsom and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

I rest my case.

Oh, and lest we forget... motherflerking Pink Floyd.

Did somebody say Pink Floyd?

[Liriena]

The funny thing about 'nonconformists' is that they're very conformist within their own clique.

I’m not a non-conformist, I just haven’t been molded into the ‘right’ mindset by the capitalists. There may be others like me or not, but that doesn’t make a difference in my mind.

Hegemony, affirmative culture, the culture industry... yeah, that stuff is real, but you can't just stubbornly cling to the deeply pessimistic and waaaaaaaay too broad and pretentious outlook of people like Theodor Adorno. Just because music is now mostly created under capitalism doesn't mean that all of it is mediocre, and I'd be willing to wager that your experience with contemporary music has been limited at best, probably by your own choice.

You can remain aware and critical of the conditions that produce art while also maintaining a curiosity and an openness of mind towards the individual pieces of art and individual artists. Or are you also going to off-handedly dismiss artists of the film industry like Boots Riley on the basis of the American film industry being a capitalist one?