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Wargame simulations show Russia and China could defeat US

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:29 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:Well, as far as France would allow before going nuclear. So Western Europe is safe, if just to provide a comfortable buffer for France. :lol:

I forgot, the nuclear submarines.
Image

Or maybe, France doesn’t want all of all European members NATO to be nuked.
The South Falls wrote:
Comradeistan wrote:Three Words: Mutually. Assured. Destruction.

TACTICAL NUKE!

Tactical nukes are meant to kill civilian targets, only military. They are different from the nukes that would be launched in a nuclear war. Tactical nukes are destructive, but aren’t meant to destroy whole cities.
Last edited by The Galactic Liberal Democracy on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Confederate States of German America
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Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:36 pm

First American Empire wrote:
The Black Party wrote:Nice and all, but how long would France last before surrendering after inevitably choosing the wrong side?


Sometime after they've already launched their entire nuclear arsenal and destroyed the 300 largest cities in Russia. This time, the planet would break before France does.


France literally has one SLBM-equipped sub with 24 missiles as their deterrent.
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
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Going so fast, hope I don't crash
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Dooom35796821595
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:37 pm

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:Well, as far as France would allow before going nuclear. So Western Europe is safe, if just to provide a comfortable buffer for France. :lol:

I forgot, the nuclear submarines.
Image

Or maybe, France doesn’t want all of all European members NATO to be nuked.


There are many scenarios that could preempt a full strategic nuking, like the threat of nuclear force, or a single bomb against conventional Russian forces. Failing that, turning Russia to plate glass.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Oh look, another reason to bloat the military budget.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
Sometime after they've already launched their entire nuclear arsenal and destroyed the 300 largest cities in Russia. This time, the planet would break before France does.


France literally has one SLBM-equipped sub with 24 missiles as their deterrent.


I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.
Last edited by Dooom35796821595 on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

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Lonbonia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lonbonia » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:43 pm

Now, I could be cherrypicking data by accident and probably get the whole gist of this article wrong, but.

"dozens of wargames simulating major conflict scenarios in what it describes as Russia and China’s 'backyards.'"

I'm not sure what the shock should be all about. My initial assumptions tell me that this result is not really something to be in shock about, being that the USA:

1. will not have the home advantage, which means lack of US-oriented telecoms. They'd have to sort out through everything the Chinese and Russians throw at them.
2. will have a much harder time getting military and logistics in as opposed to China or Russia who just have it right there in their home territory.
3. will be matched against two of the world's superpowers.
4. "[The USA] should not assume air and maritime superiority over the battlespace."

What do you expect the simulations to pull when you're fighting them at their own territory? I'm not expecting Russia or China to willingly accept being slapped in the face with a Big Mac and a 16oz coke bottle while blue, red and white flood the sky and everyone chants "FREEDOM."
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Confederate States of German America
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Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:46 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Crazy idea:

we don't go to war with Russia and China or anyone and simply live in peace with them


Also known as the "Beyond deluded option".
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
I just wanna do the dash, put my pedal to the gas
Going so fast, hope I don't crash
One false move, that could be my last

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Confederate States of German America
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Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
France literally has one SLBM-equipped sub with 24 missiles as their deterrent.


I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.


They only keep one at sea at a time and their only plane-based deterrent is that they may or may not have aircraft on their single carrier with nukes to match; regardless, the planes don't have the range or numbers to do anything to the Russians.
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
I just wanna do the dash, put my pedal to the gas
Going so fast, hope I don't crash
One false move, that could be my last

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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:48 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Crazy idea:

we don't go to war with Russia and China or anyone and simply live in peace with them


Also known as the "Beyond deluded option".

Are you suggesting we do go to war with one or both of them then?
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:51 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.

North Korea has a nuke; therefore they can beat America.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:52 pm

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.

North Korea has a nuke; therefore they can beat America.

Maybe if they could get it past Japan they could
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Crazy idea:

we don't go to war with Russia and China or anyone and simply live in peace with them


Also known as the "Beyond deluded option".

Also know as:

A sane option that doesn't cost millions of lives.

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Memeosan
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Founded: Sep 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Memeosan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 pm

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.

North Korea has a nuke; therefore they can beat America.


I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

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Confederate States of German America
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Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
Also known as the "Beyond deluded option".

Are you suggesting we do go to war with one or both of them then?


No, I'm saying it's beyond deluded to have the notion that one can simply just live in peace.
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
I just wanna do the dash, put my pedal to the gas
Going so fast, hope I don't crash
One false move, that could be my last

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Dooom35796821595
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Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:54 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
I’m pretty sure they have four subs, each with 16 missile tubes, along with plane delivered tactical nukes.


They only keep one at sea at a time and their only plane-based deterrent is that they may or may not have aircraft on their single carrier with nukes to match; regardless, the planes don't have the range or numbers to do anything to the Russians.


Minimum.
One sub, 16 missiles, up to 112 independent strategic warheads travelling at hypersonic speed toward their targets in Russia, yeah the French nuclear deterrent is entirely toothless. :p

And the French planes would be more then capable of hitting an invading Russian army halfway through Europe, especially since there would be no way to predict what plane is carrying the nuke. But yeah, it’s not a squadron of B2s, so they may as well pack it in.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:55 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Are you suggesting we do go to war with one or both of them then?


No, I'm saying it's beyond deluded to have the notion that one can simply just live in peace.

Perhaps
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Memeosan
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Founded: Sep 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Memeosan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:58 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
They only keep one at sea at a time and their only plane-based deterrent is that they may or may not have aircraft on their single carrier with nukes to match; regardless, the planes don't have the range or numbers to do anything to the Russians.


Minimum.
One sub, 16 missiles, up to 112 independent strategic warheads travelling at hypersonic speed toward their targets in Russia, yeah the French nuclear deterrent is entirely toothless. :p

And the French planes would be more then capable of hitting an invading Russian army halfway through Europe, especially since there would be no way to predict what plane is carrying the nuke. But yeah, it’s not a squadron of B2s, so they may as well pack it in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Confederate States of German America wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Are you suggesting we do go to war with one or both of them then?


No, I'm saying it's beyond deluded to have the notion that one can simply just live in peace.

Nations can't exist if there not bombing some other nation somewhere else.

Ok, and I'm a football playing king in space.

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The Feylands
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Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Feylands » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:00 pm

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:Or maybe, France doesn’t want all of all European members NATO to be nuked.
Nope. Someone's gonna pay their agricultural subsidies after all. :)

"Russia's coming but don't worry Sweden... you have France on your side." Yeh. Like that's gonna make me feel any better (unless the Russians are coming for a crepe-making contest). :p

Nah... Let's just offer the Chinese a naval base on the isle of Gotland and live in perpetual peace instead...

:lol2:

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:04 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:Maybe if they could get it past Japan they could

If they continue development, they may be able to damage Seoul.

Still, their strange weapons other countries don’t use and other factors make them a physical threat. Although North Korea could launch a nuke at anyone and start a nuclear war, they probably won’t. Their ICBMs are pathetic, but unconventional weapons that they posses should be watched out for. Ultimately, neither North Korea or France have the power to beat their strongest enemies. Possession of nuclear devices is not a replacement for anything but other WMDs.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Confederate States of German America
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Posts: 937
Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:04 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
They only keep one at sea at a time and their only plane-based deterrent is that they may or may not have aircraft on their single carrier with nukes to match; regardless, the planes don't have the range or numbers to do anything to the Russians.


Minimum.
One sub, 16 missiles, up to 112 independent strategic warheads travelling at hypersonic speed toward their targets in Russia, yeah the French nuclear deterrent is entirely toothless. :p

And the French planes would be more then capable of hitting an invading Russian army halfway through Europe, especially since there would be no way to predict what plane is carrying the nuke. But yeah, it’s not a squadron of B2s, so they may as well pack it in.


16 missiles, the MIRVs are required to hit the main target of the overall missile. Nor will said planes have the range to hit anything unless the carrier gets in the North Sea or Baltic, in which case the Russians fuck it up with their own missile systems. The Anglo-French deterrent is non existent.
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
I just wanna do the dash, put my pedal to the gas
Going so fast, hope I don't crash
One false move, that could be my last

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Papalotltlan
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Founded: Mar 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Papalotltlan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
No, I'm saying it's beyond deluded to have the notion that one can simply just live in peace.

Nations can't exist if there not bombing some other nation somewhere else.

Ok, and I'm a football playing king in space.


He's clearly not saying that. It is deluded to think that nations can all just live in peace, and history shows that is very very clearly not the case. I'm sure France would've loved to live in peace with the Germany in the 40's, but they couldn't. I'm sure Kuwait would've loved to live in peace with Iraq in the 90's, but again, they couldn't. Of course not all nations have to be in constant state of war to exist, but sometimes they need to fight wars to preserve this existence.

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Confederate States of German America
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Founded: Dec 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate States of German America » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:06 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Confederate States of German America wrote:
No, I'm saying it's beyond deluded to have the notion that one can simply just live in peace.

Nations can't exist if there not bombing some other nation somewhere else.

Ok, and I'm a football playing king in space.


Would you like to try again with a serious argument?
I'm literally OEP. Still a National Syndicalist.

All these horses in my car got me going fast
I just wanna do the dash, put my pedal to the gas
Going so fast, hope I don't crash
One false move, that could be my last

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2517
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:06 pm

Memeosan wrote:
The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:North Korea has a nuke; therefore they can beat America.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

It makes as much sense as saying France will defeat Russia with a few submarines.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Memeosan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Sep 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Memeosan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:07 pm

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Maybe if they could get it past Japan they could

If they continue development, they may be able to damage Seoul.

Still, their strange weapons other countries don’t use and other factors make them a physical threat. Although North Korea could launch a nuke at anyone and start a nuclear war, they probably won’t. Their ICBMs are pathetic, but unconventional weapons that they posses should be watched out for. Ultimately, neither North Korea or France have the power to beat their strongest enemies. Possession of nuclear devices is not a replacement for anything but other WMDs.


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