Wargame simulations show Russia and China could defeat US

[Democratic Republic Of Unified States]

How long would the UK hold out for before Russia defects.

[The South Falls]

Everytime someone brings up that the US isn't spending enough to keep up with combined Chinese and Russian military, some guy from /k/ will come in and say that the US can quash any country easily and that all studies that show different things are just the government trying to get more tax money in the military.

This ain't 4chan, can't be that many /k/ommandos.

4chan is slowly coming over here.

[Novus America]

The conflict is not directly over each others land. It is over what lies in between.

A fight between the US and China would be over Taiwan, or other Islands.
Not because China wants to take over North America or because the US wants China.

Russia and NATO over Ukraine, the Baltics, etc.

Some completely insane Russians do want Alaska but even amongst Russians that is an extreme fringe group.

The US has no desire to take over Russia.

Then why go to war in the first place?

Less death that way.

I am not calling for a shooting war. I would not want one.
One could still happen. We need to be prepared.

[Shofercia]

Sometimes I wonder how Manifest Destiny would've turned out if the Native Americans had built in resistance to diseases like smallpox.

I wonder how it would've worked out if Russia had held on to its North American Possessions. Would definitely bring the Cold War much closer to home.

In order for Russia to hold on to Russia's North American possessions, you'd have to have a completely different World, where the Cold War would be impossible. There'd be no WWI or WWII either. It's where Csar Alexander I gets deposed in favor of a more competent Csar, who doesn't go to war against Napoleon as part of the Third Coalition, and then we enter the World of Alternate History.

Sometimes I wonder how Manifest Destiny would've turned out if the Native Americans had built in resistance to diseases like smallpox.

There's actually a wonderful alternative history series called the United States of Vinland where the Norse colonists in America actually stay, and the natives are given time to actually develop resistance to said diseases and repopulate.

Damn, I gotta check that out! Thanks Gen!

[Nea Byzantia]

I wonder how it would've worked out if Russia had held on to its North American Possessions. Would definitely bring the Cold War much closer to home.

In order for Russia to hold on to Russia's North American possessions, you'd have to have a completely different World, where the Cold War would be impossible. There'd be no WWI or WWII either. It's where Csar Alexander I gets deposed in favor of a more competent Csar, who doesn't go to war against Napoleon as part of the Third Coalition, and then we enter the World of Alternate History.

Was Tsar Paul I really so bad? Why was he assassinated?

[Yagon]

Y'all studious young know far more about these things then me, what would be the economic aftermath of a shooting war between the US and China, even if it didn't go nuclear and stopped, it would presumably halt all trade?

Is it hyperbole to consider that might collapse the global economy in an unprecedented way?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Then why go to war in the first place?

Less death that way.

I am not calling for war. I would not want one.
One could still happen. We need to be prepared.

Thats cool, but I think we just need to be a little less prepared and a little more preventive of war happening in the first place.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

That and a united Mankind invested in the sciences and colonizing space instead of killing over ideology/religion/land would be beneficial to all of mankind.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Y'all studious young know far more about these things then me, what would be the economic aftermath of a shooting war between the US and China, even if it didn't go nuclear and stopped, it would presumably halt all trade?

Is it hyperbole to consider that might collapse the global economy in an unprecedented way?

Like ww1. Relevant quote from Bismarck.

“One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888).”

Economics wise, yes complete disaster. I’m just explaining why a war would start with economic disaster in mind. Trade would pick up eventually, though.

[Shofercia]

In order for Russia to hold on to Russia's North American possessions, you'd have to have a completely different World, where the Cold War would be impossible. There'd be no WWI or WWII either. It's where Csar Alexander I gets deposed in favor of a more competent Csar, who doesn't go to war against Napoleon as part of the Third Coalition, and then we enter the World of Alternate History.

Was Tsar Paul I really so bad? Why was he assassinated in 1801?

He wasn't bad, just incompetent when it came to his private security. But in the five years he ruled, he only issued one bad edict, (that women cannot rule because Catherine the Great kept him out of power,) but I think that if he ruled longer, he would've reversed course on it. He was assassinated by a bunch of traitors who should've been executed. His inability to hire those who would be able to spot these traitors led to his demise.

Csar Alexander I was quite terrible. His rule began the Romanov Decline.

[Nea Byzantia]

Was Tsar Paul I really so bad? Why was he assassinated in 1801?

He wasn't bad, just incompetent when it came to his private security. But in the five years he ruled, he only issued one bad edict, (that women cannot rule because Catherine the Great kept him out of power,) but I think that if he ruled longer, he would've reversed course on it. He was assassinated by a bunch of traitors who should've been executed. His inability to hire those who would be able to spot these traitors led to his demise.

Csar Alexander I was quite terrible. His rule began the Romanov Decline.

So if Paul had stuck around. could the Decline of Imperial Russia have been averted?

[Shofercia]

Y'all studious young know far more about these things then me, what would be the economic aftermath of a shooting war between the US and China, even if it didn't go nuclear and stopped, it would presumably halt all trade?

Is it hyperbole to consider that might collapse the global economy in an unprecedented way?

What war are we talking about? In the simulation, China takes Taiwan. US would enact an economic blockade of China, and try to gather forces to aid Taiwan. Does the war extend beyond that?

If not, we're talking about a crisis similar to the one in 2008-2009, followed by an economic recovery. That said, if China takes Taiwan by force China would lose quite a bit of influence in Asia, possibly leading to the end of the Silk Road.

[Shofercia]

He wasn't bad, just incompetent when it came to his private security. But in the five years he ruled, he only issued one bad edict, (that women cannot rule because Catherine the Great kept him out of power,) but I think that if he ruled longer, he would've reversed course on it. He was assassinated by a bunch of traitors who should've been executed. His inability to hire those who would be able to spot these traitors led to his demise.

Csar Alexander I was quite terrible. His rule began the Romanov Decline.

So if Paul had stuck around. could the Decline of Imperial Russia have been averted?

Theoretically - yes, provided that Paul I would've been able to adapt to domestic reforms as quickly as he adapted to military reforms, and that he would've been able to hire superb security that would've kept him from being assassinated. Catherine the Great, for instance had a stellar economic and military policies, but failed on the domestic front; Paul I would've had to succeed on all fronts.

[Nea Byzantia]

So if Paul had stuck around. could the Decline of Imperial Russia have been averted?

Theoretically - yes, provided that Paul I would've been able to adapt to domestic reforms as quickly as he adapted to military reforms, and that he would've been able to hire superb security that would've kept him from being assassinated. Catherine the Great, for instance had a stellar economic and military policies, but failed on the domestic front; Paul I would've had to succeed on all fronts.

Speaking of the Tsarina...do you think her "Greek Plan" could've succeeded?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Plan

[Genivaria]

I wonder how it would've worked out if Russia had held on to its North American Possessions. Would definitely bring the Cold War much closer to home.

In order for Russia to hold on to Russia's North American possessions, you'd have to have a completely different World, where the Cold War would be impossible. There'd be no WWI or WWII either. It's where Csar Alexander I gets deposed in favor of a more competent Csar, who doesn't go to war against Napoleon as part of the Third Coalition, and then we enter the World of Alternate History.

There's actually a wonderful alternative history series called the United States of Vinland where the Norse colonists in America actually stay, and the natives are given time to actually develop resistance to said diseases and repopulate.

Damn, I gotta check that out! Thanks Gen!

I should point out that it's far more from the perspective of the Norse colonists than the natives who are referred to as Skraelings.

[Aclion]

This is just another attempt by the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex to justify their massive bloated budgets, and wring even more money out of the American tax-payer. Unfortunately, this sort of scare-mongering is so common, it isn't a surprise anymore.

And of course the United States is worried about "big bad" Russia and China, its been accustomed to being the Sole Great Power since the Soviet Union keeled over in 1991. What? You mean Francis Fukuyama's "End of History" didn't come?...

inb4: "Are you ACTUALLY defending Russia and China"...I can just feel all the American Apple-Pie eating neo-cons preparing to nuke me with responses.

tbh the military just needs to stop being wasteful with it's spending

but you know, it would be better if we didn't have war at all

It's not the military. It's congress spending money on programs the pentagon doesn't want, because it brings federal money to their district.

[Yagon]

tbh the military just needs to stop being wasteful with it's spending

but you know, it would be better if we didn't have war at all

It's not the military. It's congress spending money on programs the pentagon doesn't want, because it brings federal money to their district.

No way. Never. You're wrong.

There's no possible way that elected officials would compromise their duty to the people over a matter of money.

Maybe in your country, but here in America we have a little something called "ethics" and our officials wouldn't even be able to conceive such an action, given our elite's fine post-secondary education, which shows them how to value merit over money through a perfectly merit based admissions system.

It's also why our healthcare is so awesome.

[Shofercia]

Theoretically - yes, provided that Paul I would've been able to adapt to domestic reforms as quickly as he adapted to military reforms, and that he would've been able to hire superb security that would've kept him from being assassinated. Catherine the Great, for instance had a stellar economic and military policies, but failed on the domestic front; Paul I would've had to succeed on all fronts.

Speaking of the Tsarina...do you think her "Greek Plan" could've succeeded?

Yes, because in this case, Russia does not enter the Third Coalition against Napoleon. Europe is too preoccupied with France, and the Russian Armed Forces at this time were easily among the best, and arguably the best in the World. The Ottomans - not so much. Let's recap how the wars went:

Russian Victory (1768-1774)
Russian Victory (1787-1792)
Russian Victory (1806-1812)
Russian Victory (1828-1829)

During this time, the Russians could've easily partied in Istanbul. Also, no Austerlitz, so the Russians have extra morale boost.

[Genivaria]

tbh the military just needs to stop being wasteful with it's spending

but you know, it would be better if we didn't have war at all

It's not the military. It's congress spending money on programs the pentagon doesn't want, because it brings federal money to their district.

One of the downsides to our private defense contractors.

[Shofercia]

In order for Russia to hold on to Russia's North American possessions, you'd have to have a completely different World, where the Cold War would be impossible. There'd be no WWI or WWII either. It's where Csar Alexander I gets deposed in favor of a more competent Csar, who doesn't go to war against Napoleon as part of the Third Coalition, and then we enter the World of Alternate History.




Damn, I gotta check that out! Thanks Gen!

I should point out that it's far more from the perspective of the Norse colonists than the natives who are referred to as Skraelings.

I wonder how the Norse Colonists would've reacted to Christopher Columbus - any ideas?

[The South Falls]

It's not the military. It's congress spending money on programs the pentagon doesn't want, because it brings federal money to their district.

One of the downsides to our private defense contractors.

If you ask me, defense should be nationalized. But that's me.

[Genivaria]

I should point out that it's far more from the perspective of the Norse colonists than the natives who are referred to as Skraelings.

I wonder how the Norse Colonists would've reacted to Christopher Columbus - any ideas?

With iron axes and armor and not a single sneeze.
And they wouldn't be 'colonists' by the time Columbus came along but a mixed people who incorporated Norse religion as well as hostility to the White Christ.

[Shofercia]

It's not the military. It's congress spending money on programs the pentagon doesn't want, because it brings federal money to their district.

No way. Never. You're wrong.

There's no possible way that elected officials would compromise their duty to the people over a matter of money.

Maybe in your country, but here in America we have a little something called "ethics" and our officials wouldn't even be able to conceive such an action, given our elite's fine post-secondary education, which shows them how to value merit over money through a perfectly merit based admissions system.

It's also why our healthcare is so awesome.

The one time when you don't have to use a sarcasm tag on NSG. Let's take a look at World Bank Data: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH ... _desc=true

United States: 16.84%.
Switzerland: 12.06%
Difference: 4.78% of GDP - $866 billion

There are several reasons for the comparison. First, the Swiss Healthcare is much better. Second, the Swiss Healthcare is the most Capitalist Healthcare System in the EU, and third, the Swiss Healthcare System is the most expensive in the EU as percent of GDP.

This means that even if we are to pretend that America's Healthcare is as awesome as the Swiss Model, the US is still wasting $866 billion due to inefficiency, lobbying, corruption, etc.

[Nea Byzantia]

Speaking of the Tsarina...do you think her "Greek Plan" could've succeeded?

Yes, because in this case, Russia does not enter the Third Coalition against Napoleon. Europe is too preoccupied with France, and the Russian Armed Forces at this time were easily among the best, and arguably the best in the World. The Ottomans - not so much. Let's recap how the wars went:

Russian Victory (1768-1774)
Russian Victory (1787-1792)
Russian Victory (1806-1812)
Russian Victory (1828-1829)

During this time, the Russians could've easily partied in Istanbul. Also, no Austerlitz, so the Russians have extra morale boost.

Cool. Its too bad that didn't happen.

[Shofercia]

I wonder how the Norse Colonists would've reacted to Christopher Columbus - any ideas?

With iron axes and armor and not a single sneeze.
And they wouldn't be 'colonists' by the time Columbus came along but a mixed people who incorporated Norse religion as well as hostility to the White Christ.

So you're saying that Columbus' expedition would've been destroyed, and the Native American Lifestyle would've been preserved. I figured you'd enjoy this one, Gen:

[Shofercia]

Yes, because in this case, Russia does not enter the Third Coalition against Napoleon. Europe is too preoccupied with France, and the Russian Armed Forces at this time were easily among the best, and arguably the best in the World. The Ottomans - not so much. Let's recap how the wars went:

Russian Victory (1768-1774)
Russian Victory (1787-1792)
Russian Victory (1806-1812)
Russian Victory (1828-1829)

During this time, the Russians could've easily partied in Istanbul. Also, no Austerlitz, so the Russians have extra morale boost.

Cool. Its too bad that didn't happen.

This is one of the many reasons that Alexander the Uno was a bad ruler who needed proper spanking... by daddy.