50 Dead After New Zealand Terrorist Attack

[Liriena]

"It's just a fact", claims the person who's presented no substantial evidence.

Forgive me, but I don't keep bookmarks of other player's posts.

Owning yourself to own the libs.

But it's fairly obvious you're weak when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

"Fairly obvious", yet you can't be bothered to prove it. Very cool.

[Vassenor]

Forgive me, but I don't keep bookmarks of other player's posts.

Owning yourself to own the libs.

But it's fairly obvious you're weak when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

"Fairly obvious", yet you can't be bothered to prove it. Very cool.

You're supposed to #listenandbelieve, not question their accusations.

[Liriena]

8chan has a /pol/ as well .

shut it down.

This is a incident that shall not be forgiven.

And what about Facebook? Facebook has been used by terror groups for recruiting. Terror attacks have been livestreamed there before. Why not shut it down too?

I actually, unironically 100% endorse the idea of breaking apart the social media oligopoly, Facebook included. Or just nationalizing the shit out of it.

And also, it'd be nice to have one fewer platform where boomers can infest my life with racist minion memes.

[Licana]

NZ Police are threating up to 10 years imprisonment for anyone in possession of the livestream footage, 14 years for hosting/distribution and a 200k NZD fine for corporate entities doing the same.

At least one forum hosting the video is being asked to turn over user data including IP and email addresses to the NZ police/govt.

EDIT: For clarity, the wording implies those in possession of the manifesto would also be subject to these actions.

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

[New Bremerton]

The West becoming less racist, sexist and anti-LGBT, and more secular, democratic and industrialized = advancement

The problem is that advancement in this case is a subjective statement. Just because we consider such things advancement does not mean everyone does.

Some people, like this terrorist, not considering the repudiation of racism to be advancement doesn't make it okay. Racism is fucked up. White supremacy and killing innocent Muslims is epically fucked up. There is no space for moral relativism here. Racism is the antithesis of cultural progress.

[Liriena]

NZ Police are threating up to 10 years imprisonment for anyone in possession of the livestream footage, 14 years for hosting/distribution and a 200k NZD fine for corporate entities doing the same.

At least one forum hosting the video is being asked to turn over user data including IP and email addresses to the NZ police/govt.

EDIT: For clarity, the wording implies those in possession of the manifesto would also be subject to these actions.

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Cultures changing over time =/= advancement

The West becoming less racist, sexist and anti-LGBT, and more secular, democratic and industrialized = advancement

Almost all of those are opinions. And "industrialized" is the physical advancement of culture I was talking about.

The problem is that advancement in this case is a subjective statement. Just because we consider such things advancement does not mean everyone does.

Some people, like this terrorist, not considering the repudiation of racism to be advancement doesn't make it okay. Racism is f*cked up. White supremacy and killing innocent Muslims is epically *ucked up. There is no space for moral relativism here. Racism is the antithesis of cultural progress.

I'm not talking about moral relativism as that's not the topic. Actually, neither is us talking about culture the topic of this thread so we should drop it.

[Diarcesia]

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

A good way to find out if the slippery slope argument holds in this one. I hope they're wrong, for I fear the consequences otherwise.

[Licana]

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

Except American LEO agencies, who want the video for training purposes, are having to ask internet forums to distribute the video to them because of how difficult this censorship spree is making it to find.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I really don't think people should be getting prison time for soreading that video. Fined, maybe. But not prison time.

[Rostavykhan]

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

> Being in favor

Yeah, no. It's pretty bad footage, but I'd rather not have people getting arrested for owning footage of a serious incident like this, even if they're some weirdos who might enjoy it.

Besides, last thing the world needs is discount Australia trying to nab peoples data and info, or censor shit like this.

[Costa Fierro]

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

I really don't think people should be getting prison time for soreading that video. Fined, maybe. But not prison time.

I'm not sure it gets used very often, hence why it's notable people are being arrested. I would expect the judge to issue fines given that prison is the maximum sentence that can be handed down.

[Licana]

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

Except American LEO agencies, who want the video for training purposes, are having to ask internet forums to distribute the video to them because of how difficult this censorship spree is making it to find.

Actually, going further than this, it's also a good resource to show what NOT to do if someone finds themselves in an emergency situation like this. Most of the casualties in this incident came from the mosque attacked during the livestream, because a huge amount of the people there froze up in shock during the incident. These things happen rapidly, and it is absolutely imperative that anyone who may find themselves in a similar situation do something, ANYTHING, other than stand in place. Remember, this man was driven off at the second mosque by a determined attacker armed with a credit card machine. Don't huddle, don't stand in place, don't freeze up. Run. Hide. Fight back. Do anything other than nothing.

The video is a grim reminder of how quickly a situation can go sideways, and how imperative it is to react immediately if something like this happens to you.

[Fartsniffage]

I have mixed feelings about it but lean in favor of it. That footage doesn't really do anyone any good.

Except American LEO agencies, who want the video for training purposes, are having to ask internet forums to distribute the video to them because of how difficult this censorship spree is making it to find.

I'm pretty sure the New Zealand police have the video. Could American LEOs not just have a bit of respect and ask them?

[Licana]

Except American LEO agencies, who want the video for training purposes, are having to ask internet forums to distribute the video to them because of how difficult this censorship spree is making it to find.

I'm pretty sure the New Zealand police have the video. Could American LEOs not just have a bit of respect and ask them?

I'm sure they tried, I highly doubt internet forums were their initial go-to choice.

[Loben]

Except American LEO agencies, who want the video for training purposes, are having to ask internet forums to distribute the video to them because of how difficult this censorship spree is making it to find.

I'm pretty sure the New Zealand police have the video. Could American LEOs not just have a bit of respect and ask them?

Less red tape to be sure.

[Saiwania]

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

That person is a hero of the press. They're more of a hero than Edward Snowden. Their leaking of this important footage hasn't caused the death of any secret agents so far as I can tell, unlike the Snowden leaks that liberals love so much.

[New Bremerton]

NZ Police are threating up to 10 years imprisonment for anyone in possession of the livestream footage, 14 years for hosting/distribution and a 200k NZD fine for corporate entities doing the same.

At least one forum hosting the video is being asked to turn over user data including IP and email addresses to the NZ police/govt.

EDIT: For clarity, the wording implies those in possession of the manifesto would also be subject to these actions.

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

New Zealand should not be censoring the manifesto, which I've read. It should remain publicly available and legal to possess. In fact, I tried and failed, to download a copy myself for reference, suspecting it would eventually be removed. While they are right to prosecute incitement to violence, I don't think mere possession of words should be illegal especially if you're not the author and the document is already in the public domain. It's not child pornography you know. How are people, especially counter-extremism experts like Maajid Nawaz, supposed to counter the far-right if they don't even know what they stand for? Know your enemy.

As for the video, I've seen worse videos on YouTube coming out of Syria and uploaded by doctors and activists, at the expense of my mental health. I haven't seen this video and I'm not going to. The video was livestreamed by the terrorist himself and not by well-meaning activists and journalists. I think they are right to outlaw possession, hosting and distribution unless it is for research or journalistic purposes. This is the moral equivalent of child pornography. On the other hand, many people on this thread have already watched the video and read the manifesto. What's going to happen to them if they're in New Zealand? At the very least there should be a grace period for those in possession of the video.

[Farnhamia]

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

New Zealand should not be censoring the manifesto, which I've read. It should remain publicly available and legal to possess. In fact, I tried and failed, to download a copy myself for reference, suspecting it would eventually be removed. While they are right to prosecute incitement to violence, I don't think mere possession of words should be illegal especially if you're not the author and the document is already in the public domain. It's not child pornography you know. How are people, especially counter-extremism experts like Maajid Nawaz, supposed to counter the far-right if they don't even know what they stand for? Know your enemy.

As for the video, I've seen worse videos on YouTube coming out of Syria and uploaded by doctors and activists, at the expense of my mental health. I haven't seen this video and I'm not going to. The video was livestreamed by the terrorist himself and not by well-meaning activists and journalists. I think they are right to outlaw possession, hosting and distribution unless it is for research or journalistic purposes. This is the moral equivalent of child pornography. On the other hand, many people on this thread have already watched the video and read the manifesto. What's going to happen to them if they're in New Zealand? At the very least there should be a grace period for those in possession of the video.

This seems like a good point at which to reiterate that anyone posting a link to the video will receive an all-expenses-paid vacation from the NationStates forums of at least one day's duration. We now return you to your discussion.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

My condolences to the families of those killed and injured. I hope the culprit is caught and justice is served.

[Licana]

My condolences to the families of those killed and injured. I hope the culprit is caught and justice is served.

Edit 2.1: Here's what we know:

• 49 people have confirmed to have been killed at two mosques in the city of Christchurch, New Zealand. At least that number again have been injured.
• Only one person is believed to have been responsible for the attacks, two others are still in custody.
• One of the shooters has been confirmed as an Australian national.
• One person has been charged with murder.

They got him shortly after he was driven off from the second mosque.

[Fartsniffage]

Following up on this, it seems at least one person has been arrested and will be tried for distributing the livestream footage/manifesto.

New Zealand should not be censoring the manifesto, which I've read. It should remain publicly available and legal to possess. In fact, I tried and failed, to download a copy myself for reference, suspecting it would eventually be removed. While they are right to prosecute incitement to violence, I don't think mere possession of words should be illegal especially if you're not the author and the document is already in the public domain. It's not child pornography you know. How are people, especially counter-extremism experts like Maajid Nawaz, supposed to counter the far-right if they don't even know what they stand for? Know your enemy.

As for the video, I've seen worse videos on YouTube coming out of Syria and uploaded by doctors and activists, at the expense of my mental health. I haven't seen this video and I'm not going to. The video was livestreamed by the terrorist himself and not by well-meaning activists and journalists. I think they are right to outlaw possession, hosting and distribution unless it is for research or journalistic purposes. This is the moral equivalent of child pornography. On the other hand, many people on this thread have already watched the video and read the manifesto. What's going to happen to them if they're in New Zealand? At the very least there should be a grace period for those in possession of the video.

There are plenty of videos on Youtube of fatal police involved shootings. The US is okay with that and that should be respected. New Zealand is apparently not okay with videos of their citizens being killed being on Youtube and that should also be respected.

[Loben]

New Zealand should not be censoring the manifesto, which I've read. It should remain publicly available and legal to possess. In fact, I tried and failed, to download a copy myself for reference, suspecting it would eventually be removed. While they are right to prosecute incitement to violence, I don't think mere possession of words should be illegal especially if you're not the author and the document is already in the public domain. It's not child pornography you know. How are people, especially counter-extremism experts like Maajid Nawaz, supposed to counter the far-right if they don't even know what they stand for? Know your enemy.

As for the video, I've seen worse videos on YouTube coming out of Syria and uploaded by doctors and activists, at the expense of my mental health. I haven't seen this video and I'm not going to. The video was livestreamed by the terrorist himself and not by well-meaning activists and journalists. I think they are right to outlaw possession, hosting and distribution unless it is for research or journalistic purposes. This is the moral equivalent of child pornography. On the other hand, many people on this thread have already watched the video and read the manifesto. What's going to happen to them if they're in New Zealand? At the very least there should be a grace period for those in possession of the video.

There are plenty of videos on Youtube of fatal police involved shootings. The US is okay with that and that should be respected. New Zealand is apparently not okay with videos of their citizens being killed being on Youtube and that should also be respected.

but that video the NZ police is desperate to scrub off the face of the earth could help save our citizens' lives.

[Saiwania]

This is the moral equivalent of child pornography. On the other hand, many people on this thread have already watched the video and read the manifesto. What's going to happen to them if they're in New Zealand? At the very least there should be a grace period for those in possession of the video.

No it's not, not even remotely true. That is only the case if people make it so, but this would be a mistake in my view. It's more socially acceptable to view gore or snuff in general, than it is to view minors being apart of what is legally considered rape. This is apples and oranges so far as I'm concerned.

As for the people who've seen the shooting footage: I'd expect that if they wait long enough, say 10 to 20 years overseas and they happen to visit New Zealand, the NZ government isn't going to be able to remember or care at that point; and there is a statute of limitations to be made, which means a stronger legal defense to be had and a weaker prosecution.

The NZ government should have no power over people watching this important news footage. Distributing it, maybe there is a stronger rationale for preventing that, but certainly not merely viewing it if it is already publicly available. It is in the public interest to know just as every bit of 9/11 footage should be released by now given that it is "old enough news" at this point.

[Fartsniffage]

There are plenty of videos on Youtube of fatal police involved shootings. The US is okay with that and that should be respected. New Zealand is apparently not okay with videos of their citizens being killed being on Youtube and that should also be respected.

but that video the NZ police is desperate to scrub off the face of the earth could help save our citizens' lives.

The US doesn't have enough videos of US based mass shootings by this point?