50 Dead After New Zealand Terrorist Attack

[CrvenaParsa]

As Nelson Mandela was

Because racial equality is racist apparently.

He wanted to drive the Boers and Indians out of South Africa.


This is the last i will say on this Lily Savage

[Yusseria]

>tfw you kill 77 people and only get 21 years

Man, I really do hope NZ doesn't have such retarded laws and puts this guy away for life.

The sentence can be extended indefinitely so long as the police/gov't feel that he is a threat to society, iirc.

Breivik is almost certain to end his life in prison. Although Norway has a maximum prison sentence of 21 years, Breivik could be sentenced to "preventive detention", which can be extended for as long as an inmate is considered dangerous to society.

You are correct. But... what's the point of not having life sentences if you're still going to de facto put someone away for life? Seems silly.

[New Bremerton]

In his manifesto, which reads like a poorly copy-edited ISIS handbook, the terrorist wrote about how Western society was weak and decaying whereas Muslim society was strong, and its adherents were unwilling to assimilate into the inferior, Western culture. As someone who has lived in both a Western country and a Muslim country, I can safely say that this is total BS, and his cultural inferiority complex is positively delusional. What's even more unbelievable, if true, is that he's actually visited a couple of "non-white" Third World countries. How he could regard their cultures as somehow superior I have no idea.

The exact opposite is true. Everybody, including myself, wants to be a Westerner, and few Westerners would willingly become citizens, let alone adopt the customs of a less advanced society, except maybe Japanese or Korean customs (which are equally advanced), and Islamic/Middle Eastern customs and social mores are a deal breaker for most Westerners and non-Muslims including myself. I would never willingly be caught with my pants down converting to Islam and assimilating into the majority-Muslim society in my country, but I would readily assimilate into British or American culture in a heartbeat.

If Muslims have failed to integrate into European societies, that is the fault of the European governments for allowing such communities to self-segregate, thereby preventing any assimilation, not because their culture is inherently more resistant to outside influences. This is less true in the United States, where American Muslims have been successfully assimilating and slowly abandoning some of the more backward views (e.g. on homosexuality) of their immigrant parents, according to Pew Research. I take it the terrorist has never visited the USA?

The terrorist is also wrong about the alleged link between race, culture and birth rates. Higher birth rates among non-Catholics, non-Christians and pro-choice, pro-birth control Christians are mainly due to a lower standard of living. Raise the standard of living in the Muslim world, and before you know it, you have an aging population and a pensions crisis, as well as massively reduced immigration to Europe. There is no conspiracy to commit white genocide, although I am convinced that a tiny minority of radical Islamists, distinct from ordinary Muslims, do intend to colonize and Islamize Europe, thereby playing into the far-right narrative of a "great replacement". Their modus operandi is culturally, religiously and politically, but not racially, motivated, whereas Brenton Tarrant's motives are overwhelmingly based on race.

[Costa Fierro]

This is an absurdly naive thing to say. Sanity is not defined by morality, as shown by a relevant event earlier this decade.

>tfw you kill 77 people and only get 21 years

Man, I really do hope NZ doesn't have such retarded laws and puts this guy away for life.

The longest non-parole sentence received in New Zealand for a single murder is 27 years. At the moment, the Crown is looking at sentencing him under criminal justice laws because, unfortunately, no one is all that familiar with existing terrorist legislations (we've never really used it). Legal experts have said that "preventative detention" will likely be the sentence handed down, which is the Crown's way of keeping people in jail indefinitely.

The Prime Minister has also hinted that the terrorist might be deported back to Australia after sentencing, which hasn't happened before.

[Vassenor]

Because racial equality is racist apparently.

He wanted to drive the Boers and Indians out of South Africa.


This is the last i will say on this Lily Savage

-eyeroll-

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Ok.

It was me actually trying just to shit on his manifesto by calling him crazy.

You can shit on his manifesto all you want. The issue is you keep acting like no one should read it to try to understand this in a more in-depth manner.

Ok yeah I kinda fucked up there

[Yusseria]

>tfw you kill 77 people and only get 21 years

Man, I really do hope NZ doesn't have such retarded laws and puts this guy away for life.

The longest non-parole sentence received in New Zealand for a single murder is 27 years. At the moment, the Crown is looking at sentencing him under criminal justice laws because, unfortunately, no one is all that familiar with existing terrorist legislations (we've never really used it). Legal experts have said that "preventative detention" will likely be the sentence handed down, which is the Crown's way of keeping people in jail indefinitely.

The Prime Minister has also hinted that the terrorist might be deported back to Australia after sentencing, which hasn't happened before.

What would happen if he was deported? Would the Aussies charge him with further crimes? I'd assume so.

[Loben]

You can shit on his manifesto all you want. The issue is you keep acting like no one should read it to try to understand this in a more in-depth manner.

Ok yeah I kinda fucked up there

you are a better man to admit it. Good job.

[Yusseria]

Ok yeah I kinda fucked up there

you are a better man to admit it. Good job.

Seconded. Proud of Herp.

[Diarcesia]

The terrorist is also wrong about the alleged link between race, culture and birth rates. Higher birth rates among non-Catholics, non-Christians and pro-choice, pro-birth control Christians are mainly due to a lower standard of living. Raise the standard of living in the Muslim world, and before you know it, you have an aging population and a pensions crisis, as well as massively reduced immigration to Europe. There is no conspiracy to commit white genocide, although I am convinced that a tiny minority of radical Islamists, distinct from ordinary Muslims, do intend to colonize and Islamize Europe, thereby playing into the far-right narrative of a "great replacement". Their modus operandi is culturally, religiously and politically, but not racially, motivated, whereas Brenton Tarrant's motives are overwhelmingly based on race.

Yeah. Anecdotally, non-Westerners would choose to stay in their countries if their standard of living is comparable to Western countries. This is why I find this "Great Replacement" idea to be a bunch of BS.

[Costa Fierro]

What would happen if he was deported? Would the Aussies charge him with further crimes? I'd assume so.

No idea. But as the terrorist would then be Australia's problem, it'd none of my concern.

[CrvenaParsa]

The terrorist is also wrong about the alleged link between race, culture and birth rates. Higher birth rates among non-Catholics, non-Christians and pro-choice, pro-birth control Christians are mainly due to a lower standard of living. Raise the standard of living in the Muslim world, and before you know it, you have an aging population and a pensions crisis, as well as massively reduced immigration to Europe. There is no conspiracy to commit white genocide, although I am convinced that a tiny minority of radical Islamists, distinct from ordinary Muslims, do intend to colonize and Islamize Europe, thereby playing into the far-right narrative of a "great replacement". Their modus operandi is culturally, religiously and politically, but not racially, motivated, whereas Brenton Tarrant's motives are overwhelmingly based on race.

Yeah. Anecdotally, non-Westerners would choose to stay in their countries if their standard of living is comparable to Western countries. This is why I find this "Great Replacement" idea to be a bunch of BS.

How does this explain educated, middle class to upper class non-westerners wanting to come to the west?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I was going for "His manifesto is so shity that you could not possibly gleam any sort of info off of it beacuse the shooter was so incredibly stupid" type joke.

sorry for fucking up again

[Loben]

I was going for "His manifesto is so shity that you could not possibly gleam any sort of info off of it beacuse the shooter was so incredibly stupid" type joke.

sorry for fucking up again

no need to

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yeah. Anecdotally, non-Westerners would choose to stay in their countries if their standard of living is comparable to Western countries. This is why I find this "Great Replacement" idea to be a bunch of BS.

How does this explain educated, middle class to upper class non-westerners wanting to come to the west?

This is also not the topic of this thread.

[Fedel]

And? Where's your proof that it was /pol/ that radicalized him rather then him already being radicalized and posting on /pol/ as a result?

Many of the responses on /pol/ to him doing what he did were horrified. There were a few that praised him with the majority being apathetic. You'd get a few nutjobs doing that on pretty much any site. Hell, we've had people in this very thread praise him. I don't see you calling for NationStates to be shut down.

Because the majority of people here where horrified. /pol/ was not.

And? How is that proof that /pol/ radicalized him? It may have normalized bad ideas to an unhealthy extent which makes it less likely to have prevented his actions, but all sites are going to have varying degrees of apathy. Where do you draw the line?

[Farnhamia]

Explain how bad shit Mandela did is relevant to this thread or endeavour to lessen your threadjacking? Or is that too difficult for you lot?

Because dogs on here were saying that unlike this guy Mandela dindu nuffin.

I'm sure the rules have been pointed out to you. You would do well to read them and follow them during your *** 1 day ban for trolling. ***

[New Bremerton]

Yeah. Anecdotally, non-Westerners would choose to stay in their countries if their standard of living is comparable to Western countries. This is why I find this "Great Replacement" idea to be a bunch of BS.

How does this explain educated, middle class to upper class non-westerners wanting to come to the west?

Their home countries are politically, culturally and economically less developed, and they just want to get away from the shitholes they grew up in and start over in the West.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

How does this explain educated, middle class to upper class non-westerners wanting to come to the west?

Their home countries are politically, culturally and economically less developed, and they just want to get away from the *hitholes they grew up in and start over in the West.

There's no such thing as cultural underdevelopment. And wdym by "politically less developed"?

[New Bremerton]

Their home countries are politically, culturally and economically less developed, and they just want to get away from the shitholes they grew up in and start over in the West.

There's no such thing as cultural underdevelopment.

In your opinion, there isn't. In my opinion, there is. Cultures and societies evolve and become more advanced just like species do. The terrorist simply had it backward.

EDIT: Just read your edit. Politically less developed as in less democratic, less accountable, more corrupt, less secular, more intolerant etc.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There's no such thing as cultural underdevelopment.

In your opinion, there isn't. In my opinion, there is. Cultures and societies evolve and become more advanced just like species do. The terrorist simply had it backward.

Cultures changing over time =/= advancement

Actually I think you might have a point here, but only really in physical stuff, like, music, food, housing, etc. Not abstract stuff like "is this right or wrong?".

[New Bremerton]

In your opinion, there isn't. In my opinion, there is. Cultures and societies evolve and become more advanced just like species do. The terrorist simply had it backward.

Cultures changing over time =/= advancement

The West becoming less racist, sexist and anti-LGBT, and more secular, democratic and industrialized = advancement

[Liriena]

"It's just a fact", claims the person who's presented no substantial evidence.

I can't profess to know your own personal beliefs, but from our own conversations you called for:

"undermining their ability to recruit and organize both online and offline. Take away their platforms and their echo chambers, refuse their leaders any opportunity to spread their ideas. Isolate their recruits and approach them individually"

in regards to white nationalists. I.E. shutting down public websites, censoring people and tracking down and finding people who browsed said sites.

I don't know what you believe we should do about proponents of radical islam, but if you haven't suggested similar measures be taken against its members, that does suggest a double standard.

I'd endorse the same for Islamic fundamentalism. Although both in the case of white supremacists and Islamic fundamentalists, I favor their respective communities taking it upon themselves to deal with it, rather than the government unilaterally spying and censoring as it sees fit.

[Loben]

I can't profess to know your own personal beliefs, but from our own conversations you called for:

"undermining their ability to recruit and organize both online and offline. Take away their platforms and their echo chambers, refuse their leaders any opportunity to spread their ideas. Isolate their recruits and approach them individually"

in regards to white nationalists. I.E. shutting down public websites, censoring people and tracking down and finding people who browsed said sites.

I don't know what you believe we should do about proponents of radical islam, but if you haven't suggested similar measures be taken against its members, that does suggest a double standard.

I'd endorse the same for Islamic fundamentalism. Although both in the case of white supremacists and Islamic fundamentalists, I favor their respective communities taking it upon themselves to deal with it, rather than the government unilaterally spying and censoring as it sees fit.

which is probably going to happen anyway.

[Vassenor]

Cultures changing over time =/= advancement

The West becoming less racist, sexist and anti-LGBT, and more secular, democratic and industrialized = advancement

The problem is that advancement in this case is a subjective statement. Just because we consider such things advancement does not mean everyone does.