50 Dead After New Zealand Terrorist Attack

[Torrocca]

Because people have collective guilt boners.

It makes me absolutely mad. No one deserves to be shot dead.

Well, almost no one.

There's at least a few exceptions I'm sure almost everyone can agree on, like Nazis from 1939-1945 who hadn't surrendered.

[Bear Stearns]

It makes me absolutely mad. No one deserves to be shot dead.

Well, almost no one.

There's at least a few exceptions I'm sure almost everyone can agree on, like Nazis from 1939-1945 who hadn't surrendered.

I think people generally accept killing during wartime.

[Vassenor]

I don't care at all how any given discussion forum is moderated or what's said where. What I am talking about is the awareness of just how many people worldwide have been consumed by this miasma of toxic bigotry and fear, those who have been brainwashed to think they're under siege from foreigners, Muslims, Jews, feminists, socialists, or whatever other nemesis they're convinced is out there trying to destroy them, and those doing the brainwashing, those who recruit to this cause - if you could even call it a cause, if it's not just nihilistic flailing.

Every hour of every day, more are joining in, some of them at such a young age. I can't even fathom how many, and how to mitigate the damage. I don't even know where the point of no return is. When someone is first influenced by this ideology in their teens or earlier and a decade or two later when they become the next shooter or one of the thousands cheering on the shooter from behind their screen. When is it too late to save them?

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

Apparently having the President of the United States and at least one major media outlet shilling for you isn't being celebrated or having control over media and society's institutions.

[The South Falls]

It makes me absolutely mad. No one deserves to be shot dead.

Political violence is usually a result of having no avenue for representation. Politics is merely violence, that's all it is. It is the societal discussion on when violence is appropriate, who the appropriate targets are, for what ends, and so on. It is a discussion about violence and how to use it.

And if you actively decide some people have no place in that discussion, they will form their own. That is how it has always been and will always be.

So, are you telling me to let Nazis join the discussions otherwise they die.

[Ostroeuropa]

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

Yeah, I read your earlier posts about the "push factor", which reminds me I wanted to reply to you and ask you a question.

You were talking about Muslims not being properly integrated into Western society and all that. If that's such a factor in bigotry against Muslims, why do so many of the same people who hate Muslims also hate Jews? Jews who live in Western countries are more or less entirely integrated, so much so that in America, Britain, anywhere in continental Europe, you really couldn't even identify one in a crowd except for one who adheres to orthodox dress codes. For the most part though Jews are utterly indistinguishable from your average Christian or secular person in the same country though. So why is that?

I'd say there you've got a couple of factors.

Firstly you've got straight up memetic inheritance in discourse terms. It's there because it used to be there and it's simpler if you're adopting a racist worldview to just say "Well it's the Jews at it again" than to throw the whole book out and start afresh.

Then you've got politics and collective tribalism that progressive ideology has normalized in society.

You've got the "anti-Semitism" angle being overused in a cynical ploy to deflect reasonable criticism and entrench power and privilege and that overuse being normalized and facilitated by the establishment, much like "Islamophobia" and "Misogyny", this behavior and the facilitation of it while adamantly refusing to recognize even basic anti-white and anti-male speech and behavior sends a signal about the group and their status as actively gaslighting white males and making it clear they are their enemy and have no interest in good faith cooperation.

Then you've got disproportionate Jewish ownership over the media, and the prevalence of Jews in the progressive left and in the Frankfurt school that birthed it and so on.

"Culture of critique" touches on some of it too.

But my bets would be placed on the; "Your political organizations and discourse is based around actively gaslighting us.".

You can tell the far-right is loosely defined because of people like Milo. They don't actually care all that much if you're a jew or whatever. It's about being The Enemy.

Jew, Muslim, feminist, these are all shorthand.

[Ostroeuropa]

Political violence is usually a result of having no avenue for representation. Politics is merely violence, that's all it is. It is the societal discussion on when violence is appropriate, who the appropriate targets are, for what ends, and so on. It is a discussion about violence and how to use it.

And if you actively decide some people have no place in that discussion, they will form their own. That is how it has always been and will always be.

So, are you telling me to let Nazis join the discussions otherwise they die.

No. Merely recognizing a fact about the nature of the overwhelming majority of humans throughout history and that appears to be a natural thing about us.

If our system of discussion cannot involve Nazis without empowering them, then maybe our platform for discussing political issues is broken. (Hint; capitalist media.).

[Thanatttynia]

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

Apparently having the President of the United States and at least one major media outlet shilling for you isn't being celebrated or having control over media and society's institutions.

The suggestion that this type of rhetoric is socially acceptable (let alone, as some have said, fundamental to politics or commentary in the West) is disingenuous. These people are drawn to this toxic shit because it's taboo. Fox News and Trump aren't far-right, they're just unwilling to risk their own popularity with the far-right by denouncing them.

[Bear Stearns]

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

Yeah, I read your earlier posts about the "push factor", which reminds me I wanted to reply to you and ask you a question.

You were talking about Muslims not being properly integrated into Western society and all that. If that's such a factor in bigotry against Muslims, why do so many of the same people who hate Muslims also hate Jews? Jews who live in Western countries are more or less entirely integrated, so much so that in America, Britain, anywhere in continental Europe, you really couldn't even identify one in a crowd except for one who adheres to orthodox dress codes. For the most part though Jews are utterly indistinguishable from your average Christian or secular person in the same country though. So why is that?

People hate Jews and Muslims for different reasons. Nobody is out here saying that Jews are fanatical religious conservatives who live and die by the sword.

[Costa Fierro]

Morning everyone, some updates. The Prime Minister has confirmed that the property in Dunedin that was raided by police belonged to the terrorist, who appeared this morning in the Christchurch District Court and was charged with one count of murder, although more counts will eventually be added to the list. He is being remanded in custody until April 5.

The death toll from the terrorist attack remains at 49, with 20 individuals in critical condition in hospital. The Prime Minister has confirmed that gun laws in New Zealand will change. It has also been revealed that the terrorist had a firearm's licence and had been a member of a rifle club in Dunedin. Under current laws, all the firearms used in the attack on the mosques are legal.

[San Lumen]

Morning everyone, some updates. The Prime Minister has confirmed that the property in Dunedin that was raided by police belonged to the terrorist, who appeared this morning in the Christchurch District Court and was charged with one count of murder, although more counts will eventually be added to the list. He is being remanded in custody until April 5.

The death toll from the terrorist attack remains at 49, with 20 individuals in critical condition in hospital. The Prime Minister has confirmed that gun laws in New Zealand will change. It has also been revealed that the terrorist had a firearm's licence and had been a member of a rifle club in Dunedin. Under current laws, all the firearms used in the attack on the mosques are legal.

Good to know action will be taken. Maybe they will go the route Australia did which has not had a mass shooting since their last one in the mid 90s when they effectively banned almost all guns if im not mistaken.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I don't care at all how any given discussion forum is moderated or what's said where. What I am talking about is the awareness of just how many people worldwide have been consumed by this miasma of toxic bigotry and fear, those who have been brainwashed to think they're under siege from foreigners, Muslims, Jews, feminists, socialists, or whatever other nemesis they're convinced is out there trying to destroy them, and those doing the brainwashing, those who recruit to this cause - if you could even call it a cause, if it's not just nihilistic flailing.

Every hour of every day, more are joining in, some of them at such a young age. I can't even fathom how many, and how to mitigate the damage. I don't even know where the point of no return is. When someone is first influenced by this ideology in their teens or earlier and a decade or two later when they become the next shooter or one of the thousands cheering on the shooter from behind their screen. When is it too late to save them?

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

It kinda does.

It has loads of echo chambers all online that invite people in by first mocking SJW's and then grinding it down to where they circle jerk about even more alt right shit.

[Costa Fierro]

Not disagreeing with you there. I'm not sure how they plan on changing their gun laws save for what the Washington Post typed, not really the best source for it.

Here's an article from August last year about what the police were concerned about.

There's a number of loopholes in existing legislation that was haphazardly slapped together after the Aramoana massacre in 1990.

[Shamhnan Insir]

Morning everyone, some updates. The Prime Minister has confirmed that the property in Dunedin that was raided by police belonged to the terrorist, who appeared this morning in the Christchurch District Court and was charged with one count of murder, although more counts will eventually be added to the list. He is being remanded in custody until April 5.

The death toll from the terrorist attack remains at 49, with 20 individuals in critical condition in hospital. The Prime Minister has confirmed that gun laws in New Zealand will change. It has also been revealed that the terrorist had a firearm's licence and had been a member of a rifle club in Dunedin. Under current laws, all the firearms used in the attack on the mosques are legal.

Questions could be raised about the need for such a firearms license, but a discussion on limits of freedoms is better spent on another thread.
I'd argue the bigger issue is that the bastard succeeded in his objectives. Take even a brief look around the web and you can see the shit-storm erupting from every facet and leaning, and the majority of this noise is not even directed at the individual. Instead they spear off at other groups, factions and individuals for their supposed roles and responsibilities in encouraging this crime. These onlookers and vicarious "hangers on" are giving this bastard his victory by dividing themselves even more.

[Aclion]

That was quite fast to end up appearing in court.

This is just a preliminary hearing. Generally ends with the imposition or denial of bail conditions and scheduling of the actual trial.

Also we may be up to at least one copy-cat or inspired attack.

And why should we be surprised after giving the first guy exactly what he asked for?

[Esternial]

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

It kinda does.

It has loads of echo chambers all online that invite people in by first mocking SJW's and then grinding it down to where they circle jerk about even more alt right shit.

Also the media typically plays a big role in increasing polarization.

Sometimes they just can't help it, sometimes intentional. More clicks outweighs reporting all parts of a story.

[Costa Fierro]

I thought he was trying to get the US gun control lobby to cause a civil war. Not get the New Zealand government to implement stricter gun control laws.

I'm under the impression it was to get the Americans to get the gun lobby to stand up for their rights or something like that. I'm not entirely sure, I only had part of the manifesto read to me.

[Vassenor]

Apparently having the President of the United States and at least one major media outlet shilling for you isn't being celebrated or having control over media and society's institutions.

The suggestion that this type of rhetoric is socially acceptable (let alone, as some have said, fundamental to politics or commentary in the West) is disingenuous. These people are drawn to this toxic shit because it's taboo. Fox News and Trump aren't far-right, they're just unwilling to risk their own popularity with the far-right by denouncing them.

So yeah, like I said, shilling for them.

[The South Falls]

So, are you telling me to let Nazis join the discussions otherwise they die.

No. Merely recognizing a fact about the nature of the overwhelming majority of humans throughout history and that appears to be a natural thing about us.

If our system of discussion cannot involve Nazis without empowering them, then maybe our platform for discussing political issues is broken. (Hint; capitalist media.).

That it is. I'm not sure the media is good for discussing political issues. Capitalist media is made for money and nothing else.

[Ostroeuropa]

The far-right doesn't have massive amounts of control over media and societies institutions, and they're hardly celebrated socially. If the movement is growing, maybe you should wonder what about society is causing a push factor.

It kinda does.

It has loads of echo chambers all online that invite people in by first mocking SJW's and then grinding it down to where they circle jerk about even more alt right shit.

You're seeing the result of the push factor. People do not just up and decide to go join these echo chambers, as many are noting, this trend is growing despite the fact they are actively marginalized and containment strategies are being attempted, but those strategies are failing.

You know why?

Because people don't have to join an echo chamber to realize feminism is a misandrist hate movement. They just have to listen to the things feminists say. They don't have to go join stormfront to realize Muslim extremism is given preferential treatment by the left and consequently the establishment. They don't have to join an echo chamber. They just have to exist in society.

These people also aren't represented by the right wing and capitalism, so they have nowhere to go.

At that point, they will seek out people willing to discuss those things. But because nobody engages with those topics in good faith due to ideological dogmatisms and hatred for whites and males who point out they are being treated unfairly, those individuals are pushed into echo chambers. Once inside those echo chambers the natural thing happens and a spectrum of discourse evolves that does not include the viewpoints of those outside the group and thus doesn't empathize with them, their lives, or their experiences. (I.E, the exact problem the progressive left has in their treatment of white men guarantees the existence of white men with the same problem, reflected back.).

At one end of that spectrum, you get violence.

The progressive left has been actively hateful and hostile to white males for a while. They've committed a decades long epistemic injustice on the topic of anti-white racism and anti-male sexism. They have refused to alter their discourse or be accepting to peoples experiences and why they matter and have driven those people out of the conversation, and then they went and had their own. Because that group (the alt-right) lacks the power to use the state to enact their political violence like the progressive left does, they do it as individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_injustice

These are the consequences in political terms.

There's a simple way to solve it. Fix the left wing. You can stop being sexists and racists and driivng people out. You can't fix the right wing, they will never stop being capitalist.

But the reason there is this problem in society is that there is a refusal to accept the discourse of people as valid and relevant on the basis of the color of their skin or their sex. The result of that is that our discourse is dysfunctional and doesn't account for everybody, it alienates and otherizes those not included in it and doesn't consider their view and input. The result is polarization and extremism.

I also think the right wing actively cultivated this dynamic from the left wing to make their opposition impotent.

[Bear Stearns]

Apparently having the President of the United States and at least one major media outlet shilling for you isn't being celebrated or having control over media and society's institutions.

The suggestion that this type of rhetoric is socially acceptable (let alone, as some have said, fundamental to politics or commentary in the West) is disingenuous. These people are drawn to this toxic shit because it's taboo. Fox News and Trump aren't far-right, they're just unwilling to risk their own popularity with the far-right by denouncing them.

Tbh, if you take away the cronyism and crassness, and look solely at actual legislation that's been pushed through, Trump's governed more or less like Mitt Romney would have.

[Sneudal]

On that note i'm quite glad i live in the Netherlands, where even the (main) right-wing leader (Geert Wilders) condemmed the attacks in the most serious way possible. No excuses no nothing.



I've heard that story too, but i personally couldn't hear it in the video.



Perhaps yes, but it will become a lot harder, which is only a good thing.

Debatable.

And how's that?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Morning everyone, some updates. The Prime Minister has confirmed that the property in Dunedin that was raided by police belonged to the terrorist, who appeared this morning in the Christchurch District Court and was charged with one count of murder, although more counts will eventually be added to the list. He is being remanded in custody until April 5.

The death toll from the terrorist attack remains at 49, with 20 individuals in critical condition in hospital. The Prime Minister has confirmed that gun laws in New Zealand will change. It has also been revealed that the terrorist had a firearm's licence and had been a member of a rifle club in Dunedin. Under current laws, all the firearms used in the attack on the mosques are legal.

Good to know action will be taken. Maybe they will go the route Australia did which has not had a mass shooting since their last one in the mid 90s when they effectively banned almost all guns if im not mistaken.

This literally isn't true.

[Thanatttynia]

(Well-meaning) liberal hand-wringing over the role of traditional media, or even social media, in this is, I feel, misguided. I doubt this attacker was radicalised by talk radio or newspaper columns, or even on Facebook or Twitter. Reading his manifesto makes it pretty clear which festering corner of the internet he crawled out from.

Much has been said by politicians of the need to legislate to take control away from social media platforms (which, sure, that's fine) but it won't stop things like this. But if it's been hard to get a straight answer or impose solutions on giant multinational corporations, we have no chance with other places on the internet. Attacks like these are the result of much greater societal problems; if we want to stop these things, we have to fix those.

[Vassenor]

The suggestion that this type of rhetoric is socially acceptable (let alone, as some have said, fundamental to politics or commentary in the West) is disingenuous. These people are drawn to this toxic shit because it's taboo. Fox News and Trump aren't far-right, they're just unwilling to risk their own popularity with the far-right by denouncing them.

Tbh, if you take away the cronyism and crassness, and look solely at actual legislation that's been pushed through, Trump's governed more or less like Mitt Romney would have.

Pretty sure the President doesn't write legislation.

[Bear Stearns]

Tbh, if you take away the cronyism and crassness, and look solely at actual legislation that's been pushed through, Trump's governed more or less like Mitt Romney would have.

Pretty sure the President doesn't write legislation.

Christ...man...have a little nuance.