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Operation Varsity Blues

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:21 am

Andsed wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
The world plays unfair so they in my view, were only playing unfair back. There were great benefits to be had if they weren't caught, but if they were caught; evidently the consequences for them aren't so bad. So they opted to do this. It is the university's fault if they get fooled.

I detest the whole concept that people should have to spends loads of money just to become qualified for more lucrative jobs (outside of a few industries where there doesn't exist much viable alternative, such as someone wanting to become a medical or legal professional). I'm wroth at all the fleecing of people universities are responsible for. It is not as if all the money these schools are getting is even being put to good use. It is going to luxury bullshit or lining the pockets of administrators, not teachers, not for the benefit of aspiring students.

So your going off the logic of two wrongs make a right? It is in no way okay to bribe people so that your kid can get into college in the place of actually deserving students and it is a crime. College being to expensive does not justify this period.


As a parent your job is to put your kid in the best position to succeed. If you could use your money to improve their chances, why wouldnt you?
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:23 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Andsed wrote:So your going off the logic of two wrongs make a right? It is in no way okay to bribe people so that your kid can get into college in the place of actually deserving students and it is a crime. College being to expensive does not justify this period.


As a parent your job is to put your kid in the best position to succeed. If you could use your money to improve their chances, why wouldnt you?


Hopefully it depends on whether you use your money in a way that is legal.

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:26 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
As a parent your job is to put your kid in the best position to succeed. If you could use your money to improve their chances, why wouldnt you?


Hopefully it depends on whether you use your money in a way that is legal.


I was playing devil's advocate a bit, but you are right, teaching your kids to cheat isnt the best of ideas. And again that is my surprise, for the same money you can get your kid in legally.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:29 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Hopefully it depends on whether you use your money in a way that is legal.


I was playing devil's advocate a bit, but you are right, teaching your kids to cheat isnt the best of ideas. And again that is my surprise, for the same money you can get your kid in legally.

The contrast between the cheating in the admissions system and the stringent anti-cheating methods employed by most universities in relation to submitted coursework is glaring...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
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Saiwania
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Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:29 am

Andsed wrote:So your going off the logic of two wrongs make a right? It is in no way okay to bribe people so that your kid can get into college in the place of actually deserving students and it is a crime. College being to expensive does not justify this period.


If the student in question who benefits from the bribe, can manage to do all of the work anyways- then it isn't a big deal to me. It is a different matter if a person who got bribed in will fail because they're objectively not able to do the work and won't make good enough grades to perform to expectations. In the latter scenario, there is no point in trying to get them in as a student and they're better served elsewhere.

If a college rejects you, chances are that there is another that will accept them. The question of "who deserves to get admitted" is subjective and arbitrary. Fact is that more people want to go to a particular place, than there are available seats. If that is the case, then the only deciding factor will be what people the school wants and who manages to get "first in line" figuratively speaking. The means they used to get first in line, is asides the point from my perspective.
Last edited by Saiwania on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Andsed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:30 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Andsed wrote:So your going off the logic of two wrongs make a right? It is in no way okay to bribe people so that your kid can get into college in the place of actually deserving students and it is a crime. College being to expensive does not justify this period.


As a parent your job is to put your kid in the best position to succeed. If you could use your money to improve their chances, why wouldnt you?

It depends on how I am going to do that. If it means bribing people so my kid can get spots in place of desvering kids hell no. If it means hiring tutors to help them than yes.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Ifreann
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Posts: 126907
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:32 am

Tareldar wrote:
Page wrote:
The kid with a perfect GPA is still going to lose to the kid whose daddy donated a million dollars most of the time.


How do we fix this?

Destroy capitalism.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
He/Him
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Andsed
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Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:So your going off the logic of two wrongs make a right? It is in no way okay to bribe people so that your kid can get into college in the place of actually deserving students and it is a crime. College being to expensive does not justify this period.


If the student in question who benefits from the bribe, can manage to do all of the work anyways- then it isn't a big deal to me. It is a different matter if a person who got bribed in will fail because they're objectively not able to do the work and won't make good enough grades to perform to expectations. In the latter scenario, there is no point in trying to get them in as a student and they're better served elsewhere.

If a college rejects you, chances are that there is another that will. The question of "who deserves to get admitted" is subjective and arbitrary. Fact is that more people want to go to a particular place, than there are available seats. If that is the case, then the only deciding factor will be what people the school wants and who manages to get "first in line" figuratively speaking. The means they used to get first in line, is asides the point from my perspective.

What world are you living in where it is okay to illegally bribe people so that your kid can get into a college over a deserving kid? The ability of the kid getting in through bribes is utterly irrelevant as they are still getting in not through their merits but through money.
Last edited by Andsed on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Saiwania
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Posts: 14850
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:05 am

Andsed wrote:What world are you living in where it is okay to illegally bribe people so that your kid can get into a college over a deserving kid? The ability of the kid getting in through bribes is utterly irrelevant as they are still getting in not through their merits but through money.


It is not entirely through merit anyways. Colleges use diversity bs and other complex formulas to even decide whether to accept someone. Why should an international student for example, be given more of an edge by default over an American for an American university? I say that most people just do whatever it takes to win in this life.
Last edited by Saiwania on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:What world are you living in where it is okay to illegally bribe people so that your kid can get into a college over a deserving kid? The ability of the kid getting in through bribes is utterly irrelevant as they are still getting in not through their merits but through money.


It is not entirely through merit anyways. Colleges use diversity bs and other complex formulas to even decide whether to accept someone. Why should an international student for example, be given more of an edge by default over an American for an American university? I say that most people just do whatever it takes to win in this life.

Because foreign kids pay full freight
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Saiwania
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Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:15 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Because foreign kids pay full freight


All those international students are going to do, is steal national knowledge and resources to take back to use in their native country; like what happened with Huawei stealing Cisco technology. The US is not meant to be a dumping ground for the world's disadvantaged as Donald Trump puts it, and "helping the world" should not come at the expense of our own national progress and well being.

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:18 am

Saiwania wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Because foreign kids pay full freight


All those international students are going to do, is steal national knowledge and resources to take back to use in their native country; like what happened with Huawei stealing Cisco technology. The US is not meant to be a dumping ground for the world's disadvantaged as Donald Trump puts it, and "helping the world" should not come at the expense of our own national progress and well being.

These kids help the schools turn a profit and enable them to hand out scholarships to needy American kids.

2nd oftentimes exposing the future elite of their countries to America gives them a favorable viewpoint towards America. (Its good PR).
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Andsed
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Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:26 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:What world are you living in where it is okay to illegally bribe people so that your kid can get into a college over a deserving kid? The ability of the kid getting in through bribes is utterly irrelevant as they are still getting in not through their merits but through money.


It is not entirely through merit anyways. Colleges use diversity bs and other complex formulas to even decide whether to accept someone. Why should an international student for example, be given more of an edge by default over an American for an American university? I say that most people just do whatever it takes to win in this life.

Okay? How does any of this justify illegally bribing people to get kids into college?
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Communist Xomaniax
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Posts: 1988
Founded: May 02, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Communist Xomaniax » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:27 am

Anyone involved should have the whole of their assets seized and be put in prison.
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MT: Union of Socialist People's Republics (Rustonia)
FT: Ozun Freeholds Confederation

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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:28 am

Novus America wrote:
New haven america wrote:This just in, rich people do bad shit in order to get either them or their immediate families even further ahead in life than they already are.

And in other news, water is wet, more on this story at 11. Stay tuned.


The thing is this does not even really get them ahead.
Graduating an from a big name school mostly only helps with your first job, and then only to a certain degree (someone looking for an engineer is still picking the engineer from a normal state school over a women’s studies major from Yale).

It is all prestige. All about looking good.
Like plating your car in gold. It does not make your car faster, you are just engaging in superficial posturing.

Not true in the slightest. Degrees from those schools are worth a ton when it comes to employment and building connections.

Hell, if I was able to go to one of those schools and graduate with a only a Bachelor's or Master's, as long as the school still does well I'd be able to use that degree for employment purposes 20-30 years down the line if I wanted to.
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That's all folks~

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Tareldar
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Posts: 91
Founded: Dec 28, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tareldar » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tareldar wrote:
How do we fix this?

Destroy capitalism.


Image

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Saiwania
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Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:33 am

Andsed wrote:Okay? How does any of this justify illegally bribing people to get kids into college?


The people accepting bribes should be punished, not the people offering bribes; if any punishment is to be had. If the system is stacked against certain types of people, that is sufficient reason for people who don't benefit to do whatever they can to get around such a system that is intent on locking them out; if it is inherently unjust and arbitrary.

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Communist Xomaniax
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Founded: May 02, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Communist Xomaniax » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:34 am

New haven america wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The thing is this does not even really get them ahead.
Graduating an from a big name school mostly only helps with your first job, and then only to a certain degree (someone looking for an engineer is still picking the engineer from a normal state school over a women’s studies major from Yale).

It is all prestige. All about looking good.
Like plating your car in gold. It does not make your car faster, you are just engaging in superficial posturing.

Not true in the slightest. Degrees from those schools are worth a ton when it comes to employment and building connections.

Hell, if I was able to go to one of those schools and graduate with a only a Bachelor's or Master's, as long as the school still does well I'd be able to use that degree for employment purposes 20-30 years down the line if I wanted to.

these elite schools are also where their wealthy failsons will make the connections that carry them for life
The Nuclear Fist degenerated.
MT: Union of Socialist People's Republics (Rustonia)
FT: Ozun Freeholds Confederation

Unethical Hedonist - Proud Union Member - Pro-Degeneracy - Anti-tradition fetishism -
Vulgarian Extraordinaire

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Andsed
Senator
 
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Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:35 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:Okay? How does any of this justify illegally bribing people to get kids into college?


The people accepting bribes should be punished, not the people offering bribes; if any punishment is to be had. If the system is stacked against certain types of people, that is sufficient reason for people who don't benefit to do whatever they can to get around such a system that is intent on locking them out; if it is inherently unjust and arbitrary.

Uh no. The people offering bribes should most definitely be punished. They are doing an illegal action for their own personal gain. The fact the system is ¨stacked against them¨ changes nothing.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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New haven america
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29216
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:35 am

Andsed wrote:
Saiwania wrote:These were parents that were willing to break the rules to try to get their children the best advantages. The only crime so far as I can tell, are the people who would've gotten admitted into Yale or whatever, but didn't because those people were chosen instead.

Hold on are you implying the people in these plot did not commit any crimes or have I misread your post?

No no, he admits that they committed a crime, he just doesn't believe they're the bad guys.

So par for the course for him.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Andsed
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Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:37 am

New haven america wrote:
Andsed wrote:Hold on are you implying the people in these plot did not commit any crimes or have I misread your post?

No no, he admits that they committed a crime, he just doesn't believe they're the bad guys.

So par for the course for him.

Ah yeah that makes sense. Well for him at least.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14850
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:39 am

Andsed wrote:Uh no. The people offering bribes should most definitely be punished. They are doing an illegal action for their own personal gain. The fact the system is ¨stacked against them¨ changes nothing.


They should not be getting punished unless the people who accepted their bribes go down with them. That is my price for siding with the universities. Otherwise, I'm inclined to side more with students or regular people trying to get in. Especially with the sheer amount of bullshit higher education as an industry, tries to pull.

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New haven america
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Posts: 29216
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:41 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:Uh no. The people offering bribes should most definitely be punished. They are doing an illegal action for their own personal gain. The fact the system is ¨stacked against them¨ changes nothing.


They should not be getting punished

Well they are because bribery, cheating on SATs, etc... happens to be illegal in the US.
Last edited by New haven america on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Andsed
Senator
 
Posts: 4511
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:48 am

Saiwania wrote:
Andsed wrote:Uh no. The people offering bribes should most definitely be punished. They are doing an illegal action for their own personal gain. The fact the system is ¨stacked against them¨ changes nothing.


They should not be getting punished unless the people who accepted their bribes go down with them. That is my price for siding with the universities. Otherwise, I'm inclined to side more with students or regular people trying to get in. Especially with the sheer amount of bullshit higher education as an industry, tries to pull.

Uh yeah when have I ever said the people who accepted their bribes should not be punished as well? And also the people bribing the university are not regular people. They are rich privileged people. It is the regular students who have actually worked hard who are getting fucked in this situation.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14850
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Andsed wrote:Uh yeah when have I ever said the people who accepted their bribes should not be punished as well? And also the people bribing the university are not regular people. They are rich privileged people. It is the regular students who have actually worked hard who are getting fucked in this situation.


A pure academic is arguably less likely to be admitted to a place like Yale compared to a person who is "well rounded." One major complaint I have with universities in general is that they're never happy with who they get and constantly ask for more money with no questions allowed as to why what money they get now isn't enough or even what its being spent on.

Universities want this "perfect" renaissance man candidate who doesn't exist. Be from a minority group, meet preferred diversity or economic background, be an athlete, have a track record for a 4.0 GPA, be fluent in 2 or more languages, have community service, have your parents be willing to donate x amount of money, do this- do that. It never ends with these schools.

Lets just say I have as much contempt for these elite colleges as they show unto most people, who can do some but not all.

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