Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Bear Stearns]

This just exemplifies how meaningless "the West" is as a concept. The West is whatever the speaker wants it to be.

The West consists of those aligned culturally and not just politically with the new world order created in the aftermath of the two World Wars. More narrowly, it can be considered those with their roots in the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, and Rome, though aggressive imperializing makes that somewhat difficult to discern between imposed and accepted traditions.

But even that definition is kind of weak. Ireland, Scandinavian, the Low Countries, and Germany are definitely not the cultural inheritors of Rome but they are undoubtedly considered Western.

[Confederate States of German America]

Do you all think that the fast-pacing globalization of our contemporary era will one day in the future remove the nation-state? Corporations no longer profess loyalty to the nation, instead professing loyalty to the place where they can gain the most profit. I think it is reasonable to believe that Bitcoin will replace the dollar as the worlds most powerful currency in the 21st century.

Because of this, I believe that one day, an armed conflict will arise between those who want to keep the nation-state and those who believe that nationalism has only been a curse to humanity, the cosmopolitans.

No.

[Conserative Morality]

I disagree. The idea of there being a "West" goes back to at least early conceptions of Christendom, and it always manifested itself when Europeans were pitted against outsiders, such as the Islamic invasions or Columbus's voyages.

Ha ha ha

No.

Medieval Christians associated with Christendom, not the West, and in a much broader sense than we regard the West. By the time of Columbus' voyages racialism had increasingly began to define conceptions of national selfhood.

But it was tenuous a best and changed a lot. Hence my other post that when people say the West, they really just mean white people (or Western & Northern Europeans if they wanted to be more specific, I guess).

Also no.

[Conserative Morality]

The West consists of those aligned culturally and not just politically with the new world order created in the aftermath of the two World Wars. More narrowly, it can be considered those with their roots in the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, and Rome, though aggressive imperializing makes that somewhat difficult to discern between imposed and accepted traditions.

But even that definition is kind of weak. Ireland, Scandinavian, the Low Countries, and Germany are definitely not the cultural inheritors of Rome but they are undoubtedly considered Western.

>> societies that were effectively colonized by post-Roman societies who did everything they could to imitate Rome and imposed their culture on those colonized were not cultural inheritors of Rome

:thonk:

[Confederate States of German America]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

This just exemplifies how meaningless "the West" is as a concept. The West is whatever the speaker wants it to be.

Let's be real, most of the time when people say "the West", they've subconsciously meant "white people".

Yeah that's pretty much what I mean when I say "west", so America, Canada, Aussie, New Zealand, Tassie, Europe, aka where all the white people live

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

By "Great War" you mean WW1 right? If so, I just wish the Ottomans picked the winning side

[North German Realm]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

Was either side really the "Absolutist" side though? Maybe you're talking about a different Great War

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

By "Great War" you mean WW1 right? If so, I just wish the Ottomans picked the winning side

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

[Hanafuridake]

Do you all think that the fast-pacing globalization of our contemporary era will one day in the future remove the nation-state? Corporations no longer profess loyalty to the nation, instead professing loyalty to the place where they can gain the most profit. I think it is reasonable to believe that Bitcoin will replace the dollar as the worlds most powerful currency in the 21st century.

Because of this, I believe that one day, an armed conflict will arise between those who want to keep the nation-state and those who believe that nationalism has only been a curse to humanity, the cosmopolitans.

[Confederate States of German America]

Was either side really the "Absolutist" side though? Maybe you're talking about a different Great War

In a relative sense, yes. One side was based more on the conception of the power of the Monarchs and of a traditional, conservative order while the other was generally in favor of Liberalism.

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

Definitely not.

[Bienenhalde]

Do you all think that the fast-pacing globalization of our contemporary era will one day in the future remove the nation-state? Corporations no longer profess loyalty to the nation, instead professing loyalty to the place where they can gain the most profit. I think it is reasonable to believe that Bitcoin will replace the dollar as the worlds most powerful currency in the 21st century.

Because of this, I believe that one day, an armed conflict will arise between those who want to keep the nation-state and those who believe that nationalism has only been a curse to humanity, the cosmopolitans.

Nationalism has its share of problems, but neither do I trust international corporations. So I do not know what side if any I would support.

[Salus Maior]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

Russia was the only truly absolutist country. The Central Powers were all constitutional monarchs (Actually, idk if the Ottomans were).

[CrvenaParsa]

You could and still can at the time cross the border via land as long as you were not a Indian or Pakistani citizen. I went about 11 years ago, things were different.

Oh, so you lived there 11 years ago? How was it?

I only lived in Pakistan but visited India during my time there. It was pretty safe in Pakistan at the time considering it's position in the world. Towards the end of my stay as Musharraf's began to fall there was a two bombings where i lived, this was about the time the Pakistani Taliban began their campaign.

[Bienenhalde]

I disagree. The idea of there being a "West" goes back to at least early conceptions of Christendom, and it always manifested itself when Europeans were pitted against outsiders, such as the Islamic invasions or Columbus's voyages.

Ha ha ha

No.

Medieval Christians associated with Christendom, not the West, and in a much broader sense than we regard the West. By the time of Columbus' voyages racialism had increasingly began to define conceptions of national selfhood.

I would say that the West only includes those countries which sided with the pope during the great schism of 1054.

[North German Realm]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

Russia was the only truly absolutist country. The Central Powers were all constitutional monarchs (Actually, idk if the Ottomans were).

Sure, but the majority of the Entente Powers were much more liberal and democratic compared to the largely conservative, traditionalist, and democracy-avoidant Central Powers. It doesn't mean that the Central Powers were absolute monarchies, but one can not really suggest German Constitutionalism was as democratic as British Constitutionalism.

[Hanafuridake]

Oh and I’ll reply to the fantastic hoax about killing Falun Gong cult members and taking their organs etc. in due time. That’s just the kind of demonising propaganda suited for justifying crimes against humanity. Like what the west did to China back then.

So in other words, you will support or deny Communist oppression because you hate Abrahamic religion so much?

As opposed to you buying into their rhetoric about peaceful ethnic harmony.

[Yusseria]

The West is the US and NATO. Oh, and the British Commonwealths. That's pretty much it.

So Switzerland and Austria are not the West, got it.

Pfft. Fine.

The US, NATO, Western Europe, and the British Commonwealths.

Better?

[Yusseria]

So Switzerland and Austria are not the West, got it.

Or Sweden. But for some reason India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are.

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

[Conserative Morality]

Speaking of the Great War, it'd be interesting to see the reverse of what we got historically; the Absolutists win, and proceed to impose on Europe and thus the World their system as opposed to Liberal Democracy.

Russia was the only truly absolutist country. The Central Powers were all constitutional monarchs (Actually, idk if the Ottomans were).

The dual-monarchy was constitutional in name only. The emperor ruled as he wished - only the institutions were restrained by rule of law. The Ottoman Empire was freshly out of monarchial absolutism and into a military junta, effectively. Germany was the only exception amongst the major belligerents.

After the death of Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg in 1852, the Minister of the Interior Baron Alexander von Bach largely dictated policy in Austria and Hungary. Bach centralized administrative authority for the Austrian Empire, but he also endorsed reactionary policies that reduced freedom of the press and abandoned public trials. He later represented the Absolutist (or Klerikalabsolutist) direction, which culminated in the concordat of August 1855 that gave the Roman Catholic Church control over education and family life. This period in the history of the Austrian Empire would become known as the era of neo-absolutism, or Bach's absolutism.

[CrvenaParsa]

Or Sweden. But for some reason India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are.

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

Well they are gonna be Superpowers by 2020....

[Conserative Morality]

So Switzerland and Austria are not the West, got it.

Pfft. Fine.

The US, NATO, Western Europe, and the British Commonwealths.

Better?

Or Sweden. But for some reason India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are.

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

It's really quite hilarious.

[Bienenhalde]

But even that definition is kind of weak. Ireland, Scandinavian, the Low Countries, and Germany are definitely not the cultural inheritors of Rome but they are undoubtedly considered Western.

>> societies that were effectively colonized by post-Roman societies who did everything they could to imitate Rome and imposed their culture on those colonized were not cultural inheritors of Rome

:thonk:

The Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world inherited some of Roman culture, but I would not call them Western. Only the Western Roman Empire was Western. I mean even though the Romans influenced the culture of the Eastern Roman Empire, as soon as the empire broke in two the culture of the eastern empire began evolving along its own distinct trajectory.

[Yusseria]

Pfft. Fine.

The US, NATO, Western Europe, and the British Commonwealths.

Better?

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

It's really quite hilarious.

Another post of yours for me to throw in the trash. Thank you.

[Conserative Morality]

>> societies that were effectively colonized by post-Roman societies who did everything they could to imitate Rome and imposed their culture on those colonized were not cultural inheritors of Rome

:thonk:

The Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world inherited some of Roman culture, but I would not call them Western. Only the Western Roman Empire was Western. I mean even though the Romans influenced the culture of the Eastern Roman Empire, as soon as the empire broke in two the culture of the eastern empire began evolving along its own distinct trajectory.

So North Africa is Western?

[Bienenhalde]

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

Why do you think that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was inevitable, though?