Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[The South Falls]

Religion just emphasizes deep splits and sects that may already exist. It gives people to attack all sorts of people with the religion under ulterior motives. I think people can and should practice religion, but keep it out of the government sphere.

If religion emphasizes division and masks ulterior motives, why do you say people should practice it? What exactly do you mean by keeping it out of the government sphere?

I mean de-integrating it from the government, specifically the laws and practices of the state. People can practice such religion because a secular government can act as arbitrators to any dispute.

[United Muscovite Nations]

As much as I agree with you, why?

Religion just emphasizes deep splits and sects that may already exist. It gives people to attack all sorts of people with the religion under ulterior motives. I think people can and should practice religion, but keep it out of the government sphere.

The same is true of ideology in-general.

[Oranjea]

As much as a disagree with Trump on many things, he has successfully shifted the window on, and seriously damage the neoliberal “free trade” end of history BS.
Given the that neoliberal trade is the biggest threat to the western world, (it is what made Russia and China dangerous in the first place) this is a good thing.

Jeb probably still believes selling our country and manufacturing base to China will make China a friendly liberal democracy.

Russia is historically part of the West, it has many of the same institutions and historically has functioned as a member of the Western world.

This is extremely debatable.

To what institutions do you refer?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Russia is historically part of the West, it has many of the same institutions and historically has functioned as a member of the Western world.

This is extremely debatable.

To what institutions do you refer?

A western-style state, western-style army, bureaucracy, legal system, etc. Plus Christianity.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I don't remember the Western barbarians being subdued and made to embrace the superior Confucian culture.

They didn’t because Western culture is superior to Confucianism.

[The South Falls]

Religion just emphasizes deep splits and sects that may already exist. It gives people to attack all sorts of people with the religion under ulterior motives. I think people can and should practice religion, but keep it out of the government sphere.

The same is true of ideology in-general.

Keeping ideology out of government is wishful thinking, however it's a nice idea.

[Conserative Morality]

Russia is historically part of the West, it has many of the same institutions and historically has functioned as a member of the Western world.

The problem is that it split in the Great War, when the future of the West was decided on the battlefield. The liberal powers won, and deconstructed all the old absolutist monarchies, remaking them in their own image and setting the stage for World War Part Two: Electric Boogaloo. Except, of course, for Russia, which had already fallen apart and was in the throes of its own civil war. That detachment, regardless of the Red or White victor, was fatal for its participation in the political and cultural trends of the West.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The same is true of ideology in-general.

Keeping ideology out of government is wishful thinking, however it's a nice idea.

It's not a nice idea. Ideology is a necessary component of political thought, and religion is a kind of ideology.

[Novus America]

As much as a disagree with Trump on many things, he has successfully shifted the window on, and seriously damage the neoliberal “free trade” end of history BS.
Given the that neoliberal trade is the biggest threat to the western world, (it is what made Russia and China dangerous in the first place) this is a good thing.

Jeb probably still believes selling our country and manufacturing base to China will make China a friendly liberal democracy.

Seeing many of the facets of the neoliberal world that's existed since the end of WW2 erode is immensely gratifying.

Really it is the Post Cold War world that really brought about modern neoliberalism.
The economic order of the 50s was very different than now.
Modern neoliberalism only really started in the 70s and only became dominant in the 90s.
Reagan believed in some protectionism and never would have supported outsourcing our jobs and manufacturing to the Soviets. By today’s standards his protectionism would make the neoliberals call him a fascist.

But yes, destroying the 90s and early 2000s neoliberalism is a beautiful thing.
Because that neoliberalism is the biggest threat we face, has done massive damage, and it is us or it. It is an existential battle of survival. Either we kill it, or it kills us.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

As much as a disagree with Trump on many things, he has successfully shifted the window on, and seriously damage the neoliberal “free trade” end of history BS.
Given the that neoliberal trade is the biggest threat to the western world, (it is what made Russia and China dangerous in the first place) this is a good thing.

Jeb probably still believes selling our country and manufacturing base to China will make China a friendly liberal democracy.

Comrade Jeb stilll gives us memes without acting like a total jackass.

[Oranjea]

This is extremely debatable.

To what institutions do you refer?

A western-style state, western-style army, bureaucracy, legal system, etc. Plus Christianity.

Russia was always distinct in governance and law to the West. Serfdom was not abolished until the 1860's, and continued de facto until the Bolshevik revolution. Russia was an agrarian, non-industrial economy ruled by Tsarist absolutism while most of the western world was either republican or constitutional monarchies with large industrial working classes.

There were entire movements, the Westernizers and the Slavophiles, who debated whether Russia should become similar to "the west" or retain its distinct culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernizer

https://acton.org/publications/transatl ... vilization

To this day, Putin and Russians generally frequently maintain they are distinct culturally and historically from the West.

Russian Orthodoxy is also very distinct from western Christianity's Catholicism and Protestantism.

Much of the west considered Russia and Russians to be Asiatic rather than white, or at least partly so. This historical background was some of the impetus for Hitler's anti-Slavic sentiments.

Would you consider the Byzantine Empire western? What about the Ottomans?

[Novus America]

As much as a disagree with Trump on many things, he has successfully shifted the window on, and seriously damage the neoliberal “free trade” end of history BS.
Given the that neoliberal trade is the biggest threat to the western world, (it is what made Russia and China dangerous in the first place) this is a good thing.

Jeb probably still believes selling our country and manufacturing base to China will make China a friendly liberal democracy.

Russia is historically part of the West, it has many of the same institutions and historically has functioned as a member of the Western world.

Russia has not been part of the West since Napolenic Wars.
Peter I was the one who wanted to make it part of the Western world.
But it was never fully accepted as such. Especially after the Western world changed in the 1800s, yet Russia lagged far behind.
And after the Russian Revolution it was clearly and fully no longer with the West.

Russia is clearly no part of the West anymore. And there is no sign it wishes to be.
Which is fine, but as long as it sees us as an adversary enriching it is crazy.
We are just giving it money to buy guns to point at us.

At least we have stopped somewhat with Russia.
But Russia is small fries compared to China.

We absolutely must slam China with every sanction we can.

We should have started doing so in 89, and never stopped.
Had we done so it would not nearly be the threat it is today.

[Novus America]

As much as I disagree with Trump on many things, he has successfully shifted the window on, and seriously damaged the neoliberal “free trade” end of history BS.
Given the that neoliberal trade is the biggest threat to the western world, (it is what made Russia and China dangerous in the first place) this is a good thing.

Jeb probably still believes selling our country and manufacturing base to China will make China a friendly liberal democracy.

Comrade Jeb stilll gives us memes without acting like a total jackass.

But will he give us sanctions and tariffs on China?
While Trump is still way to soft on China, he is much harder than Jeb I am sure.

[Novus America]

This is extremely debatable.

To what institutions do you refer?

A western-style state, western-style army, bureaucracy, legal system, etc. Plus Christianity.

Its state, military, bureaucracy, legal systems and version of Christianity today are radically different than what the West has.

[Hanafuridake]

I don't remember the Western barbarians being subdued and made to embrace the superior Confucian culture.

They didn’t because Western culture is superior to Confucianism.

I sure hope you have a better argument than last time, “Buddhism is bad because it has strange gods.”

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I sure hope you have a better argument than last time, “Buddhism is bad because it has strange gods.”

No, I have better reasons.
WARNING: large facts incoming (physically large that is). Do not open if you don’t want your screen filled with lots of pictures. It is repetitive and I encourage you not to waste your time.
Unless you want to see what is here. Still, it is big.

But on a more serious note, why are you like “Western people bad, ancient Chinese guy good.”

[Confederate States of German America]

The last great act of Western Civilization was suppressing a movement that saw to destroy its presence and the presence of its religion in what has, for most of history, been a nation that has surpassed the West. The last great act was to show that, at our height, we had transcended them.

Who is "we"? Is Japan part of western civilization?

Do you not see how the intervention of the west in China was directly responsible for introducing the ideals of republicanism and communism which would later hand it over to the communists you so despise?

The Qing were content to remain an isolated, conservative nation. Given that you're a national syndicalist, I take it you're not too pro-international bourgeoisie. How do you square this belief with the fact that the entire reason China even became something to contend with was because some petty-bourgeois British merchants wanted to keep the Chinese population perpetual drug addicts?

Given Chinese Republicans already existed and none of the intervening powers were Communist, no.

[Free African Union]

I'm an atheist, but I am not necessarily opposed to communities interacting with religion on a cultural basis. I would be lying to myself if I denied that Black Protestantism did not play a major role in ending segregation for instance.

[Salus Maior]

Why is it that fascists almost always embody the negative stereotypes they assign to other ethnicities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Honestly, from what I've observed such is not unique to Fascists, or the right for that matter.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Russia is historically part of the West, it has many of the same institutions and historically has functioned as a member of the Western world.

Russia has not been part of the West since Napolenic Wars.
Peter I was the one who wanted to make it part of the Western world.
But it was never fully accepted as such. Especially after the Western world changed in the 1800s, yet Russia lagged far behind.
And after the Russian Revolution it was clearly and fully no longer with the West.

Russia is clearly no part of the West anymore. And there is no sign it wishes to be.
Which is fine, but as long as it sees us as an adversary enriching it is crazy.
We are just giving it money to buy guns to point at us.

At least we have stopped somewhat with Russia.
But Russia is small fries compared to China.

We absolutely must slam China with every sanction we can.

We should have started doing so in 89, and never stopped.
Had we done so it would not nearly be the threat it is today.

Russia not only was part of the West after the Napoleonic wars, it was what saved the Western world from losing their historical governments in 1848.

[Proctopeo]

Russia has not been part of the West since Napolenic Wars.
Peter I was the one who wanted to make it part of the Western world.
But it was never fully accepted as such. Especially after the Western world changed in the 1800s, yet Russia lagged far behind.
And after the Russian Revolution it was clearly and fully no longer with the West.

Russia is clearly no part of the West anymore. And there is no sign it wishes to be.
Which is fine, but as long as it sees us as an adversary enriching it is crazy.
We are just giving it money to buy guns to point at us.

At least we have stopped somewhat with Russia.
But Russia is small fries compared to China.

We absolutely must slam China with every sanction we can.

We should have started doing so in 89, and never stopped.
Had we done so it would not nearly be the threat it is today.

Russia not only was part of the West after the Napoleonic wars, it was what saved the Western world from losing their historical governments in 1848.

the Petrashevsky Circle did nothing wrong

[United Muscovite Nations]

Russia not only was part of the West after the Napoleonic wars, it was what saved the Western world from losing their historical governments in 1848.

the Petrashevsky Circle did nothing wrong

Literally demonically possessed.

[Novus America]

Russia has not been part of the West since Napolenic Wars.
Peter I was the one who wanted to make it part of the Western world.
But it was never fully accepted as such. Especially after the Western world changed in the 1800s, yet Russia lagged far behind.
And after the Russian Revolution it was clearly and fully no longer with the West.

Russia is clearly no part of the West anymore. And there is no sign it wishes to be.
Which is fine, but as long as it sees us as an adversary enriching it is crazy.
We are just giving it money to buy guns to point at us.

At least we have stopped somewhat with Russia.
But Russia is small fries compared to China.

We absolutely must slam China with every sanction we can.

We should have started doing so in 89, and never stopped.
Had we done so it would not nearly be the threat it is today.

Russia not only was part of the West after the Napoleonic wars, it was what saved the Western world from losing their historical governments in 1848.

Well there was a transition period but that is where the divide really began.
After the Napoleonic wars the West and Russia began moving in very different directions.

And Russia did help brutally suppress a few uprisings in a few countries in 48 but hardly prevented the entire Western world from losing their governments.

[The Feylands]

Pro-Boxer Rebellion, or Pro-Eight Nation Alliance?

Pro-Boxer without a doubt. Dharma bless their souls.

The pitiful state of the Empire at the time may actually indirectly have been caused by the Avrahamics even long before they came to loot and pillage and burn like savages. The fall of the Great Ming that gave China the Qing may in no small part have been caused by climate changes as a result of the genocide of the American natives.

Oh and I’ll reply to the fantastic hoax about killing Falun Gong cult members and taking their organs etc. in due time. That’s just the kind of demonising propaganda suited for justifying crimes against humanity. Like what the west did to China back then.

[Darussalam]

Pro-Boxer Rebellion, or Pro-Eight Nation Alliance?

Pro-Boxer without a doubt. Dharma bless their souls.

The pitiful state of the Empire at the time may actually indirectly have been caused by the Avrahamics even long before they came to loot and pillage and burn like savages. The fall of the Great Ming that gave China the Qing may in no small part have been caused by climate changes as a result of the genocide of the American natives.

Oh and I’ll reply to the fantastic hoax about killing Falun Gong cult members and taking their organs etc. in due time. That’s just the kind of demonising propaganda suited for justifying crimes against humanity. Like what the west did to China back then.

Extraordinary