Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Novus America]

Yeah but, IIRC, it was more like "Each generation will get whiter if we boink" rather than "They're equal human beings".

Yes, that's true. But that's a better attitude than the U.S's historical attitudes on race in my opinion, which more or less seemed focused on staying "pure" and separate.

The one drop principle was not generally applied to Native Americans though.
Most states had a ban on white and black interracial marriage by the mid 1800s but only some of those laws applied to Native Americans.

So it is a little more complicated than that and Native American/white mixing was much more acceptable than black white mixing.

Black white segregation was a much greater focus than mixing between other groups.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

But the Spanish weren't interested in Allies.

What is Tlaxcala? The Huancas?
Actually the Spanish were successful because they had native allies.
Many natives decided Spanish rule was better than Aztec and Inca rule.
The Aztecs were horrible to live under.

And the Incan while not as bad could be quite oppressive.

Large numbers joined the Spanish against both the Incas and Aztecs.

But Incas offered really no value as an ally, because the Spanish wanted to rule.
The wanted allies, but subservient ones who would accept Spanish rule.
The did not want equals, they wanted subjects and slaves.

To be perfectly frank, the Spanish won against the Incas because they arrived as the Incan Civil War had literally JUST ended, and caught Atahulpa’s retinue by ambushing him during a supposed diplomatic meeting.

[The Feylands]

Honestly that's just people. The Chinese in the late 19th century weren't much different when they flayed Japanese POW's and displayed their torn apart bodies publically during the first Sino-Japanese war.

The Chinese... who had just been murdered in tens of millions and had immense cultural monuments destroyed by abrahamic savages... both by Anglo-French intruders and a local Christian cult leader who probably surpassed even the most innovative estimates of Mao Zedong's body count.

It's not hard to see where all the bad influence came from. Same applies to Shintoism and Japan in WW2 btw. Fine little useful eh... tools..

Oh, and btw...

I imagine some religious adherents of Falun Gong are Han. China persecutes both ethnic and religious minorities in order to create a nation that is more ethnically and religiously homogeneous and this is a continuation of policies that have been in place for years. A substantial majority of the population is Han and adheres to an eclectic mix of traditions that are coordinated and supervised by the government or that won't cause trouble if left to locals. On the whole East Asia is a lot more nationalistic than most of Europe at the moment.

There is no "persecution" of religious and ethnic minorities going on in China. It's such a hoax. China doesn't work like that. When I was in China I even met Hindu Han Chinese... you can be almost anything you want as long as you don't cause trouble. The same applies to discussions and debates about the government's policy... there's no shortage of Chinese people who disagree with this and that on Chinese internet. Encouraging criminal stuff is another matter ofc. But we have our taboos as well.. speaking freely of one's extremist opinions about certain things here in the west, in my country (Sweden) at least, would probably get you discriminated both in the job market, as well as in the public sector and economically.

The leaders of this ancient empire, arguably the far east's equivalent of our Rome (if Rome had survived the X-tians... ) consistently boasts about its 56 nations and how they are all united as Chinese. There's so much fake news going around about China it's not even funny. For someone who knows anything about China, it feels like like some old wife's tale about rats in the pizza or whatever. Blatant racism against Chinese and other Asians is usually overlooked in the west (for recent examples - look at my own country), all while being over-sensitive about perceived racism against other groups. It's so silly because it's hardly in our interests in any way... unless your'e a French tychoon feeling that China's economic success threatens your EU-subsidies or whatever....

And it's a pity. Because it makes us westerners unable to understand China and have a dialogue with the Chinese in a nuanced way (typical abrahamism imho... -.-). Some of the things the media etc. talk about are true (and some are just plain stupid propaganda which you hardly need to be a Sinologist to find out...), but we never get the Chinese perspective on it. You mention the Falun Gong. I think the Chinese show more concern for human dignity (or human rights) in their policy towards the Falun Gong, than the west does. This is a cult revering a leader with the strangest of beliefs, who teaches its adherents to reject scientific medical care to donate money to the cult. If America or other western countries had treated, say, prosperity gospel preachers in the same manners, millions could have been spared. Not to mention Scientology... this subversive and violent "church"... which made the authorities in the U. S. crack under the pressure of their "civil rights". Scientology is spreading itself like wildfire on Taiwan. One can only pray and ask God to make China treat them like the Falun Gong if they threaten to do the same over there. Under these circumstances, the CCP seems like the only people properly able to protect traditional China. Even the CCP's scientific approach isn't too outlandish for me as a religious person, knowing that, for instance, some parts of Traditional Chinese Medicine are contributing to the extinction of endangered animals.

But it's absolutely true that that the Chinese authorities act in ways that can be pretty utilitarian at times. That's rather understandable, their history and environment considered, with so many people and so many things to balance. Whenever there was a war in China and millions died, nearly as many millions would die in the aftermath due starvation. For a very, very long time, only the CCP has managed to get this great empire out of this vicious cycle of suffering. Conservatives and traidtionalists, etc, staring themselves blind on the term "communism" might not be doing their own intellect a favour. I've held the same right-wing view on China and Taiwan etc. as the right always used to have, but its plainly wrong going by traditional Chinese values. The Christian guy Chiang kai-Shek failed the Chinese people and lost the fabled "Mandate of heaven", by all accounts, when they were subjected to humiliation by western colonialists and warlords, among other things. Mao Zedong restored the dignity of the Chinese people and became the new son of heaven in every way but formally. And for all of the objectionable things he did... the fact that he gained power in the end was hugely due how the west had treated China for a century. So it's kinda our fault...

Oh and... couldn't resist... tihihi...



(for context, watch the otherwise rather smart Black Pidgeon Speak's not so smart anti-China rants... -.- )

[Conserative Morality]

The Chinese... who had just been murdered in tens of millions and had immense cultural monuments destroyed by abrahamic savages... both by Anglo-French intruders and a local Christian cult leader who probably surpassed even the most innovative estimates of Mao Zedong's body count.

It's not hard to see where all the bad influence came from. Same applies to Shintoism and Japan in WW2 btw. Fine little useful eh... tools..

Yes, I am sure that the Chinese were just wonderful beforehand, what with slow-slicing their political enemies and everyone related to them. "Why stop at nine? Go for ten!"

There is no "persecution" of religious and ethnic minorities going on in China. It's such a hoax. China doesn't work like that.

lol

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

There is no "persecution" of religious and ethnic minorities going on in China. It's such a hoax. China doesn't work like that.

lol

The camps are American propaganda! Absolutely no Muslims have been persecuted in any way due to their religious beliefs!

This one was paid for by the Chinese government.

[The Feylands]

Yes, I am sure that the Chinese were just wonderful beforehand, what with slow-slicing their political enemies and everyone related to them. "Why stop at nine? Go for ten!"

Blatant racism against Chinese and other Asians is usually overlooked in the west

Thanks for proving my point!

Ofc. I don't really know if you're from the west and it's not my business. I expect the same sentiments to be popular in, say, Turkey... a country that the EU cuddles with a lot that eh... doesn't exactly deserve it.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Yes, I am sure that the Chinese were just wonderful beforehand, what with slow-slicing their political enemies and everyone related to them. "Why stop at nine? Go for ten!"

Blatant racism against Chinese and other Asians is usually overlooked in the west

Thanks for proving my point!

Ofc. I don't really know if you're from the west and it's not my business. I expect the same sentiments to be popular in, say, Turkey... a country that the EU cuddles with a lot that eh... doesn't exactly deserve it.

Defend Turkey! Ottoman Empire will rise again!

[The Feylands]

The camps are American propaganda! Absolutely no Muslims have been persecuted in any way due to their religious beliefs!

Considering your previous statements I don't expect you to be interested in nuanced, philosophical thinking.. but if you are, here's a well informed take on the incredible "1 millon Uighurs" hoax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T22PM3sIsBs

(and yeh... China doesn't treat jihadist separatists in a way that has "homan rights" in focus... no one has claimed that... Like I said, the thing with China is: don't cause trouble and you can pretty much be whatever you want)

This one was paid for by the Chinese government.

I wish lol.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

The camps are American propaganda! Absolutely no Muslims have been persecuted in any way due to their religious beliefs!

Considering your previous statements I don't expect you to be interested in nuanced, philosophical thinking.. but if you are, here's a well informed take on the incredible "1 millon Uighurs" hoax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T22PM3sIsBs

(and yeh... China doesn't threat jihadist separatists in a way that has "homan rights" in focus... no one has claimed that... Like I said, the thing with China is: don't cause trouble and you can pretty much be whatever you want)

This one was paid for by the Chinese government.

I wish lol.

hey what about the U.N. security guy and who was tortured for not being completely loyal to the Party and the actress who disappeared for a bit
Sorry, I got censored by the Chinese government for speaking out. Expect me to be gone until get let me out and I will never criticize my oppressive benevolent government again.

Although, "Human rights are just words to me" - one of the great philosophers of NS

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, I am sure that the Chinese were just wonderful beforehand, what with slow-slicing their political enemies and everyone related to them. "Why stop at nine? Go for ten!"

Blatant racism against Chinese and other Asians is usually overlooked in the west

Thanks for proving my point!

... Chinese history is now racism?

Huh.

I suppose it fits with the rest of your views, though.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

... Chinese history is now racism?

Huh.

I suppose it fits with the rest of your views, though.

Insulting Dearest Leader is also racism, however, it is impossible for Asians to be racist unless they like the west. Then they are very racist indeed.

[Novus America]

What is Tlaxcala? The Huancas?
Actually the Spanish were successful because they had native allies.
Many natives decided Spanish rule was better than Aztec and Inca rule.
The Aztecs were horrible to live under.

And the Incan while not as bad could be quite oppressive.

Large numbers joined the Spanish against both the Incas and Aztecs.

But Incas offered really no value as an ally, because the Spanish wanted to rule.
The wanted allies, but subservient ones who would accept Spanish rule.
The did not want equals, they wanted subjects and slaves.

To be perfectly frank, the Spanish won against the Incas because they arrived as the Incan Civil War had literally JUST ended, and caught Atahulpa’s retinue by ambushing him during a supposed diplomatic meeting.

Well true, that certainly helped. The civil war and then then trapping him and his retinue largely unarmed because it was supposed to be diplomatic helped.

But the Spanish did have a good number of Native Allies during the Inca conquest.

[Novus America]

Thanks for proving my point!

... Chinese history is now racism?

Huh.

I suppose it fits with the rest of your views, though.

And it is all peace and rainbows for Falun Gong...
Any claim otherwise is racist!

[The Feylands]

And it is all peace and rainbows for Falun Gong...
Any claim otherwise is racist!

And now I have to resist the temptation to espouse prejudices about Americans...!

But you know... we have people with this kind of mentality here in Sweden too.. They don't listen to reason or arguments. They just "know" because someone told them.

I suppose this is a sort of people that exists in every society.... Nuanced thinking isn't for everyone. I mean.. maybe some people's calling in life is something else, something not related to thinking...?

After all, we all have different things to work with in this life...

[Novus America]

And it is all peace and rainbows for Falun Gong...
Any claim otherwise is racist!

And now I have to resist the temptation to espouse prejudices about Americans...!

But you know... we have people with this kind of mentality here in Sweden too.. They don't listen to reason or arguments. They just "know" because someone told them.

I suppose this is a sort of people that exists in every society.... Nuanced thinking isn't for everyone. I mean.. maybe some people's calling in life is something else, something not related to thinking...?

After all, we all have different things to work with in this life...

Noting the objective fact that the PRC has banned and harshly persecuted religious groups like Falun Gong is not prejudice. It is a fact.

It is not prejudice against Chinese. It is a legitimate criticism of the Chinese government.

And how is you blind apologism for the PRC nuanced? Writing off any criticism of the government as prejudiced and racist nuanced?

I never said everything the PRC does is automatically bad, but they do have an atrocious record on religious freedoms by any standards.

Show me one legitimate list of countries by religious freedom or one legitimate source saying China is good on religious freedoms.

[Bear Stearns]

Do you guys remember back in 2004 when leftist fear mongering was more about how Bush wants to establish a Christian theocracy and conquer the Middle East?

Funnier times.

[The Feylands]

Noting the objective fact that the PRC has banned and harshly persecuted religious groups like Falun Gong is not prejudice. It is a fact.

It is not prejudice against Chinese. It is a legitimate criticism of the Chinese government.

And how is you blind apologism for the PRC nuanced? Writing off any criticism of the government as prejudiced and racist nuanced?

I never said everything the PRC does is automatically bad, but they do have an atrocious record on religious freedoms by any standards.

Show me one legitimate list of countries by religious freedom or one legitimate source saying China is good on religious freedoms.

But the thing is... I never claimed otherwise. I think that the PRC made the right choice about Falun Gong.

Sorry to quote myself... but...

You mention the Falun Gong. I think the Chinese show more concern for human dignity (or human rights) in their policy towards the Falun Gong, than the west does. This is a cult revering a leader with the strangest of beliefs, who teaches its adherents to reject scientific medical care to donate money to the cult. If America or other western countries had treated, say, prosperity gospel preachers in the same manners, millions could have been spared. Not to mention Scientology... this subversive and violent "church"... which made the authorities in the U. S. crack under the pressure of their "civil rights". Scientology is spreading itself like wildfire on Taiwan. One can only pray and ask God to make China treat them like the Falun Gong if they threaten to do the same over there. Under these circumstances, the CCP seems like the only people properly able to protect traditional China. Even the CCP's scientific approach isn't too outlandish for me as a religious person, knowing that, for instance, some parts of Traditional Chinese Medicine are contributing to the extinction of endangered animals.

[The South Falls]

Do you guys remember back in 2004 when leftist fear mongering was more about how Bush wants to establish a Christian theocracy and conquer the Middle East?

Funnier times.

Yea. Now everybody's just using violence.

[Hanafuridake]

When Falun Gong practitioners have had their organs harvested and Uyghur Muslims have ended up in concentration camps, but it's okay because they believe in some weird stuff.

[Novus America]

Noting the objective fact that the PRC has banned and harshly persecuted religious groups like Falun Gong is not prejudice. It is a fact.

It is not prejudice against Chinese. It is a legitimate criticism of the Chinese government.

And how is you blind apologism for the PRC nuanced? Writing off any criticism of the government as prejudiced and racist nuanced?

I never said everything the PRC does is automatically bad, but they do have an atrocious record on religious freedoms by any standards.

Show me one legitimate list of countries by religious freedom or one legitimate source saying China is good on religious freedoms.

But the thing is... I never claimed otherwise. I think that the PRC made the right choice about Falun Gong.

Sorry to quote myself... but...

You mention the Falun Gong. I think the Chinese show more concern for human dignity (or human rights) in their policy towards the Falun Gong, than the west does. This is a cult revering a leader with the strangest of beliefs, who teaches its adherents to reject scientific medical care to donate money to the cult. If America or other western countries had treated, say, prosperity gospel preachers in the same manners, millions could have been spared. Not to mention Scientology... this subversive and violent "church"... which made the authorities in the U. S. crack under the pressure of their "civil rights". Scientology is spreading itself like wildfire on Taiwan. One can only pray and ask God to make China treat them like the Falun Gong if they threaten to do the same over there. Under these circumstances, the CCP seems like the only people properly able to protect traditional China. Even the CCP's scientific approach isn't too outlandish for me as a religious person, knowing that, for instance, some parts of Traditional Chinese Medicine are contributing to the extinction of endangered animals.

So you oppose religious freedom. You openly admit the PRC suppresses religious freedom.
Yet we are racist and prejudiced for pointing out China suppresses religious freedom?

That is genuine doublethink.

[Bear Stearns]

The best kind of people are those who wear Warby Parker spectacles.

[Novus America]

When Falun Gong practitioners have had their organs harvested and Uyghur Muslims have ended up in concentration camps, but it's okay because they believe in some weird stuff.

It is not only okay, it is good. However if you dare criticize the PRC’s record on religious freedom, you are racist and prejudiced!

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

It is not only okay, it is good. However if you dare criticize China’s record on religious freedom, you are racist and prejudiced!

*claps in Xi Jinping banning anything he doesn’t like*

[The South Falls]

It is not only okay, it is good. However if you dare criticize China’s record on religious freedom, you are racist and prejudiced!

*claps in Xi Jinping banning anything he doesn’t like*

*Claps in social credit system undermining personal freedom and forcing people to conform to the state*

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Just a note: I am not racist against Chinese and I have proof. Certain users seem to be implying others hate Chinese and that is not true. My great grandmother was Chinese and I do not hate any race.