NationStates

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Hakons wrote:

I know you're joking, but paganism dies out everywhere it's faced with monotheism.

We're growing quite steadily in the western world while Christianity is increasingly dying off. Round 2 electric boogaloo friendo.

also India laughs at your claim, smh

"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth. To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Nea Byzantia wrote:

(Image)

>> when you claim to be the heir to the Roman Empire and its glorious culture
>> but your art is literally worse than the Franks somehow

smh

>> when you claim to be historically literate, but don't know what religious iconography is

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth. To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

I am sure at one point the ultramontaignes thought a secular Europe was lunacy too. =^)

Nea Byzantia wrote:>> when you claim to be historically literate, but don't know what religious icnonograohy is

I know what it is, that doesn't make it any better. "It's bad on purpose" ranks up there with "I meant to do that" on the list of lame excuses for being shit.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Hakons wrote:

I know you're joking, but paganism dies out everywhere it's faced with monotheism.

We're growing quite steadily in the western world while Christianity is increasingly dying off. Round 2 electric boogaloo friendo.

also India laughs at your claim, smh

For come reason, whenever Christianity or Islam doesn't maintain a violent, state-sanctioned grip on religion in a society, it starts dying off after a few generations. Totally a coincidence, I'm sure.

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth.

Yeah, I thought that was kinda well known. I'm not the only one on NSG either, and we're all explicitly theistic types and not just atheists doing it for le dank memes afaik.

Hakons wrote:To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

I don't think it's really a threat in any real way, at least not currently, t'was just a jab.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth. To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

I am sure at one point the ultramontaignes thought a secular Europe was lunacy too. =^)

What is secularism but neutering basically faithfulness itself apart from the all knowing state?

Conserative Morality wrote:

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth. To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

I am sure at one point the ultramontaignes thought a secular Europe was lunacy too. =^)

That doesn't challenge the point, however. Unless people who don't believe in the spiritual suddenly pick up believing in dead religious traditions, the idea of a pagan revival isn't feasible (nor would it be desirable).

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth.

Yeah, I thought that was kinda well known. I'm not the only one on NSG either, and we're all explicitly theistic types and not just atheists doing it for le dank memes afaik.

Hakons wrote:To suggest paganism in any way threatens the Christian hegemony in the West is lunacy.

I don't think it's really a threat in any real way, at least not currently, t'was just a jab.

Make no mistake, irreligion is the only actual threat to Christianity at the moment. Various Pagan beliefs have seen impressive increase in their adherents throughout the secular world, but given that impressive rate is generally still low in number (compared to irreligion which actually is the majority in a couple of countries), it's nowhere near big enough to challenge Christianity yet. When Christianity stops being a majority religion though? Atheists will eventually start to convert in good faith (rather than, as you said, for le dank memes)

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Hakons wrote:"We're" You're actually a "pagan"?
I really have to question the sincerity of atheists/agnostics playing dress up as pagans to be equatable to real religious growth.

Yeah, I thought that was kinda well known. I'm not the only one on NSG either, and we're all explicitly theistic types and not just atheists doing it for le dank memes afaik.

So you believe that Zeus, Horus, Odin, etc. are real personal beings?

North German Realm wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
We're growing quite steadily in the western world while Christianity is increasingly dying off. Round 2 electric boogaloo friendo.

also India laughs at your claim, smh

For come reason, whenever Christianity or Islam doesn't maintain a violent, state-sanctioned grip on religion in a society, it starts dying off after a few generations. Totally a coincidence, I'm sure.

Christianity is dominant in many non state-sanctioned societies, so...

North German Realm wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yeah, I thought that was kinda well known. I'm not the only one on NSG either, and we're all explicitly theistic types and not just atheists doing it for le dank memes afaik.



I don't think it's really a threat in any real way, at least not currently, t'was just a jab.

Make no mistake, irreligion is the only actual threat to Christianity at the moment. Various Pagan beliefs have seen impressive increase in their adherents throughout the secular world, but given that impressive rate is generally still low in number (compared to irreligion which actually is the majority in a couple of countries), it's nowhere near big enough to challenge Christianity yet. When Christianity stops being a majority religion though? Atheists will eventually start to convert in good faith (rather than, as you said, for le dank memes)

Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Plus who would want former atheists in their corner?

Hakons wrote:

North German Realm wrote:For come reason, whenever Christianity or Islam doesn't maintain a violent, state-sanctioned grip on religion in a society, it starts dying off after a few generations. Totally a coincidence, I'm sure.

Christianity is dominant in many non state-sanctioned societies, so...

However, its rate of adherents compared to the total population of the society generally (barring exceptions) decreases in secular societies, which -in due time- results in the religions starting to die off (and become just one plurality like any other in, as an example, the Netherlands)

Hakons wrote:
That doesn't challenge the point, however. Unless people who don't believe in the spiritual suddenly pick up believing in dead religious traditions, the idea of a pagan revival isn't feasible (nor would it be desirable).

I'll take New Age bullshit for 500$, Alex.

I agree it's not desirable. I don't think we're on the course to such a state, despite the blooming membership of neopagan groups. But it's far from impossible. It's far more likely than Christians keeping their grip on the West, tbqh.

Or for the dank memes, this is the revenge of Divus Julian. =^^^)

North German Realm wrote:Make no mistake, irreligion is the only actual threat to Christianity at the moment. Various Pagan beliefs have seen impressive increase in their adherents throughout the secular world, but given that impressive rate is generally still low in number (compared to irreligion which actually is the majority in a couple of countries), it's nowhere near big enough to challenge Christianity yet. When Christianity stops being a majority religion though? Atheists will eventually start to convert in good faith (rather than, as you said, for le dank memes)

Oh for sure. Irreligion has absolutely shattered Christianity in the west, in a rather shockingly fast time too. While yeah you could argue rather successfully that it's still a massive cultural influence and lots of people still cling to the title for that reason it's actual prominence as a religion has died off to a really shocking degree.

I almost feel like that could warrant a whole thread of its own tbh

Hanafuridake wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yeah, I thought that was kinda well known. I'm not the only one on NSG either, and we're all explicitly theistic types and not just atheists doing it for le dank memes afaik.

So you believe that Zeus, Horus, Odin, etc. are real personal beings?

That's the pretty basic position for us to take, yeah. Obviously things can vary from person to person because even when we are organized into religious groups (ie Hellenion or some of the Germanic style groups) the focus tends to be on correct practice and exact individual belief is just that, left up to the individual practitioner.

Hakons wrote:Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Weirdly enough a good number of the polytheists I know actually are former atheists who were drawn to it via various forms of religious experience.

North German Realm wrote:

Hakons wrote:
Christianity is dominant in many non state-sanctioned societies, so...

However, its rate of adherents compared to the total population of the society generally (barring exceptions) decreases in secular societies, which -in due time- results in the religions starting to die off (and become just one plurality like any other in, as an example, the Netherlands)

Well, of course that happens. Secular societies enforce and teach secular attitudes, so people in turn become secular. I would absolutely agree that Christianity faces it's greatest challenge from secularism, and that the trends aren't looking good in secular areas.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Hakons wrote:
That doesn't challenge the point, however. Unless people who don't believe in the spiritual suddenly pick up believing in dead religious traditions, the idea of a pagan revival isn't feasible (nor would it be desirable).

I'll take New Age bullshit for 500$, Alex.

I agree it's not desirable. I don't think we're on the course to such a state, despite the blooming membership of neopagan groups. But it's far from impossible. It's far more likely than Christians keeping their grip on the West, tbqh.

Or for the dank memes, this is the revenge of Divus Julian. =^^^)

If we're going for the dank memes, the only god worth paying heed to is our glorious Uncle Sam.

Hakons wrote:

North German Realm wrote:Make no mistake, irreligion is the only actual threat to Christianity at the moment. Various Pagan beliefs have seen impressive increase in their adherents throughout the secular world, but given that impressive rate is generally still low in number (compared to irreligion which actually is the majority in a couple of countries), it's nowhere near big enough to challenge Christianity yet. When Christianity stops being a majority religion though? Atheists will eventually start to convert in good faith (rather than, as you said, for le dank memes)

Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Most atheists (especially former-Christians) tend less to disagree with the concept of spirituality (and, to a lesser degree, the divine) and more with the domination of an all-powerful, all-knowing single divine. (Of course, in a lot of cases, it's just the internalized outrage at the idea that there is a hell and they might be punished for something, but let's ignore the ones who're essentially "Who would dare punish me? He has to not exist!"). Those who genuinely refuse to believe in the concept of the divine (For example, me) will not convert anytime soon, but we're not the majority. We've never been.

Hakons wrote:

North German Realm wrote:However, its rate of adherents compared to the total population of the society generally (barring exceptions) decreases in secular societies, which -in due time- results in the religions starting to die off (and become just one plurality like any other in, as an example, the Netherlands)

Well, of course that happens. Secular societies enforce and teach secular attitudes, so people in turn become secular. I would absolutely agree that Christianity faces it's greatest challenge from secularism, and that the trends aren't looking good in secular areas.

So in other words, in societies where Christianity (or more accurately, a Church) doesn't hold the society's religious atmosphere in a tight, violent, state-sanctioned grip (i.e. where there is no state religion, or at least where it is not enforced on the general population), Christianity tends to lose popularity, while almost every other single faith tends to become more popular.

Hakons wrote:Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Weirdly enough a good number of the polytheists I know actually are former atheists who were drawn to it via various forms of religious experience.

Yes, atheists do tend to be a group with a lot of religious switching. However, they're not converting to paganism en masse. Atheist converts to Christianity far outstrip converts to paganism.

North German Realm wrote:

Hakons wrote:
Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Most atheists (especially former-Christians) tend less to disagree with the concept of spirituality (and, to a lesser degree, the divine) and more with the domination of an all-powerful, all-knowing single divine. (Of course, in a lot of cases, it's just the internalized outrage at the idea that there is a hell and they might be punished for something, but let's ignore the ones who're essentially "Who would dare punish me? He has to not exist!"). Those who genuinely refuse to believe in the concept of the divine (For example, me) will not convert anytime soon, but we're not the majority. We've never been.

>> when you have 'atheist' friends who believe in magic rocks and universal consciousness and shit

Hakons wrote:

Weirdly enough a good number of the polytheists I know actually are former atheists who were drawn to it via various forms of religious experience.

Yes, atheists do tend to be a group with a lot of religious switching. However, they're not converting to paganism en masse. Atheist converts to Christianity far outstrip converts to paganism.

Press X to doubt

Conserative Morality wrote:

North German Realm wrote:Most atheists (especially former-Christians) tend less to disagree with the concept of spirituality (and, to a lesser degree, the divine) and more with the domination of an all-powerful, all-knowing single divine. (Of course, in a lot of cases, it's just the internalized outrage at the idea that there is a hell and they might be punished for something, but let's ignore the ones who're essentially "Who would dare punish me? He has to not exist!"). Those who genuinely refuse to believe in the concept of the divine (For example, me) will not convert anytime soon, but we're not the majority. We've never been.

>> when you have 'atheist' friends who believe in magic rocks and universal consciousness and shit

It makes me go "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH" in a weirdly similar way to HPMOR's Harry Potter, but what can you do?

North German Realm wrote:

Hakons wrote:
Why on earth would an atheist convert? If they're entire argument is predicated on the lack of belief in the spiritual, they're not going to pick up pagan religion.

Most atheists (especially former-Christians) tend less to disagree with the concept of spirituality (and, to a lesser degree, the divine) and more with the domination of an all-powerful, all-knowing single divine. (Of course, in a lot of cases, it's just the internalized outrage at the idea that there is a hell and they might be punished for something, but let's ignore the ones who're essentially "Who would dare punish me? He has to not exist!"). Those who genuinely refuse to believe in the concept of the divine (For example, me) will not convert anytime soon, but we're not the majority. We've never been.

Ignoring the memes (in which I worship the federal government and assorted ideals and institutions of the United States), I maintain a fundamentally deistic conception of God (although, I prefer to use the term "The Creator" to describe It because of the vaguely Judeo-Christian over(or is it under?)tones of the term "God" in the English language)