Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Salus Maior]

You can't deny the importance of the American lend-lease to them not, you know, losing the Eastern Front...

Bah. Should've stayed out of it and let the monsters destroy each other.

America should have stayed out of the First World War.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Had Montgomery tried to take Berlin in 1944 without the Eastern Front 99% of the British Army in 1944 would've been Indians.

[United Muscovite Nations]

In terms of all of those metrics you mentioned, the USSR fought more. Curious.

Fair enough I suppose, but what about "better"?
Oh, and if we go from flat dead to dead as a percentage of population, the Soviets sit behind Poland, Nauru, and Lithuania.
One part of the Soviet Union in particular did have an overwhelmingly high percentage, Belarus.

There were battles on the Eastern Front which were larger than the entire Western front. And the Pacific front was a sideshow.

[citation needed]

The entire Western front saw 1.156 million killed in action. The battle of Stalingrad saw well over a million killed on both sides together.

[Conserative Morality]

Western countries also contributed a ton and lost a lot.

The Russians weren't that helpful on the Pacific front.

There were battles on the Eastern Front which were larger than the entire Western front. And the Pacific front was a sideshow.

Good thing there was also the Italian Campaign, the North African Campaign, and the Atlantic.

Total Axis military losses were about 9 million on the Eastern Front

Total Axis military losses were 8 million on the Western Allies' fronts.

Also "The Pacific Front was a sideshow"

lol

[United Muscovite Nations]

There were battles on the Eastern Front which were larger than the entire Western front. And the Pacific front was a sideshow.

Good thing there was also the Italian Campaign, the North African Campaign, and the Atlantic.

Total Axis military losses were about 9 million on the Eastern Front

Total Axis military losses were 8 million on the Western Allies' fronts.

Also "The Pacific Front was a sideshow"

lol

There's a difference between 9 million dead and 1 million dead and 7 million captured.

[Novus America]

You can't deny the importance of the American lend-lease to them not, you know, losing the Eastern Front...

You cannot, but it is certainly true the Soviets fought more and better. Still would have lost without the allies.

The Soviets certainly contributed and lost more men in Europe.
They would have also lost without the US.

More? In terms of men and tanks yes.

Better though?

The US had better kill ratio.
Man for man the US definitely fought better.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Whatever arguments we use, again: the Soviets lost 28 million soldiers and civilians so that the Western allies didn't have to.

[North German Realm]

Bah. Should've stayed out of it and let the monsters destroy each other.

America should have stayed out of the First World War.

It should have stuck by its "Isolationist" rhetoric and not sent aid to the Brits either, to be honest. Maybe try to mediate a peace between the two in good faith, rather than the ideological drivel that the 14 points turned out to be.

[Salus Maior]

Whatever arguments we use, again: the Soviets lost 28 million soldiers and civilians so that the Western allies didn't have to.

Actually, they lost a lot of those people because Stalin purged the military and made the German advance possible and as bad as it was.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Whatever arguments we use, again: the Soviets lost 28 million soldiers and civilians so that the Western allies didn't have to.

Actually, they lost a lot of those people because Stalin purged the military and made the German advance possible and as bad as it was.

Britain and France didn't have any better luck than the Soviet Union did.

[Conserative Morality]

There's a difference between 9 million dead and 1 million dead and 7 million captured.

5 million dead v. 3 million dead, get it right pls if you're only using dead Axis soldiers as a metric (which I must comment is a great metric tho)

Actually, they lost a lot of those people because Stalin purged the military and made the German advance possible and as bad as it was.

Britain and France didn't have any better luck than the Soviet Union did.

Yeah, they actually did. They lost a lot of territory, equipment, and battles; soldiers? Not so much.

[Novus America]

Whatever arguments we use, again: the Soviets lost 28 million soldiers and civilians so that the Western allies didn't have to.

Had the Western Allies fought Germany without the Soviets their casualties would be higher than their casualties were in real life.
But they definitely would not have lost 28 million.

[Conserative Morality]

It should have stuck by its "Isolationist" rhetoric and not sent aid to the Brits either, to be honest. Maybe try to mediate a peace between the two in good faith, rather than the ideological drivel that the 14 points turned out to be.

The US should have sided with Germany against the FRANKISH MENACE, prove me wrong. =^^^)

[North German Realm]

It should have stuck by its "Isolationist" rhetoric and not sent aid to the Brits either, to be honest. Maybe try to mediate a peace between the two in good faith, rather than the ideological drivel that the 14 points turned out to be.

The US should have sided with Germany against the FRANKISH MENACE, prove me wrong. =^^^)

I mean, I don't disagree with you there, but I'd prefer it if they stayed out of the war altogether.

[Salus Maior]

It should have stuck by its "Isolationist" rhetoric and not sent aid to the Brits either, to be honest. Maybe try to mediate a peace between the two in good faith, rather than the ideological drivel that the 14 points turned out to be.

The US should have sided with Germany against the FRANKISH MENACE, prove me wrong. =^^^)

Well, tbf the French weren't raiding their shipping.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There's a difference between 9 million dead and 1 million dead and 7 million captured.

5 million dead v. 3 million dead, get it right pls if you're only using dead Axis soldiers as a metric (which I must comment is a great metric tho)

Britain and France didn't have any better luck than the Soviet Union did.

Yeah, they actually did. They lost a lot of territory, equipment, and battles; soldiers? Not so much.

The French and British lost over 2 million soldiers if you count POW's. Those were still irrecoverable losses.

Where are you getting that 3 million figure?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Whatever arguments we use, again: the Soviets lost 28 million soldiers and civilians so that the Western allies didn't have to.

Had the Western Allies fought Germany without the Soviets their casualties would be higher than their casualties were in real life.
But they definitely would not have lost 28 million.

Probably not, but they would have lost well over a million dead, probably each.

[Novus America]

It should have stuck by its "Isolationist" rhetoric and not sent aid to the Brits either, to be honest. Maybe try to mediate a peace between the two in good faith, rather than the ideological drivel that the 14 points turned out to be.

The US should have sided with Germany against the FRANKISH MENACE, prove me wrong. =^^^)

It would be tempting from a perfectly self serving perspective.
We could have seized Canada and all French and British colonies in the Americas.

But honestly the Germans did provoke us with renewing unrestricted submarines warfare after the promised to stop and with the Zimmerman telegram insanity.

[Novus America]

Had the Western Allies fought Germany without the Soviets their casualties would be higher than their casualties were in real life.
But they definitely would not have lost 28 million.

Probably not, but they would have lost well over a million dead, probably each.

Maybe.
What would have happened is the Germans would take mainland Europe, the European war be a stalemate until 1945, and then Germany gets nukes into oblivion in 1946.

[North German Realm]

Probably not, but they would have lost well over a million dead, probably each.

Maybe.
What would have happened is the Germans would take mainland Europe, the European war be a stalemate until 1945, and then Germany gets nukes into oblivion in 1946.

I mean, technically that would be really really unlikely. With Europe completely in German hands and without a war to deal with, they would probably have made their own nukes by the point American nukes became operational.

[Torrocca]

>TFW a simple post recognizing today as VE Day has spiraled out of control into a multi-post cancer debating who did the most to destroy the Axis powers and the merits of whether or not it would've been better to have not fought the Nazis & Co. altogether

Never change, NSG. Never change.

[Conserative Morality]

The French and British lost over 2 million soldiers if you count POW's. Those were still irrecoverable losses.

If we're discussing irrecoverable losses, we're back to 9 mil v. 8 mil, and at a much better ratio for the Western Allies.

Where are you getting that 3 million figure?

600k on the Western Front, 400k in Italy, 140k in air battles, 50k in North Africa, 35k in France, 25k in East Africa, 36k at sea in battles with the Western Allies including Uboat destruction, and 1.6 mil in the Pacific (yes, excluding Chinese engagements). My math ain't so great and I was running off of estimations (I thought casualties in East Africa were higher tbh), but that's about 3 mil.

[Conserative Morality]

>TFW a simple post recognizing today as VE Day has spiraled out of control into a multi-post cancer debating who did the most to destroy the Axis powers and the merits of whether or not it would've been better to have not fought the Nazis & Co. altogether

Never change, NSG. Never change.

C'mon, Western Allies dickwaving v. Soviet dickwaving is a time honored tradition.

[Torrocca]

>TFW a simple post recognizing today as VE Day has spiraled out of control into a multi-post cancer debating who did the most to destroy the Axis powers and the merits of whether or not it would've been better to have not fought the Nazis & Co. altogether

Never change, NSG. Never change.

C'mon, Western Allies dickwaving v. Soviet dickwaving is a time honored tradition.

Not nearly as time-honored as Rome and Carthage, however.

[Hanafuridake]

Had Montgomery tried to take Berlin in 1944 without the Eastern Front 99% of the British Army in 1944 would've been Indians.

The Germans would have unknowingly unleashed Bollywood much faster on the world.