Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Bienenhalde]

Stronger family units, stronger faith, and firm patriotism are good for society. Heck, happiness nowadays is dropping rapidly.

Ignoring the fact that that’s quite literally a Nazi program for a second, happiness may possibly be dropping due to unrestricted capitalism.

I think people should follow Christianity, not engage in some idolatrous cult of racial supremacy like the Nazis did. And anyway, one can support faith, family, and patriotism while also being opposed to capitalism, which in the twenty-first century is eroding the former three.

[Novus America]

I am pretty sure it is worse, at least for white men. Not that I think it is the fault of women and minorities, per se. It has more to do with bad decisions made by white men themselves and impersonal social forces across the grand sweep of history.

I'd blame it primarily on Capitalism, tbqh.

For you, perhaps. A quick venture into the Rust Belt is all you need to know that what you perceive as better is unique.

Huh, it's almost like Capitalism fucked them over by taking business away from that area.

I'm certain you won't blame the amoralities of Capitalism, though, even as it conflicts with your Catholicism.

Stupid trade policies from the 70s on fucked over a ton of people yes. Which is why those trade policies are shit and should be reversed.

Obviously our trade policies in the 50s were better than now.

[Kowani]

Reminder that the Little Rock 9 didn’t happen for another 3 years. Civil Rights Act doesn’t get passed until ‘64. Voting Rights Act, ‘65. De facto segregation? Please.
Shitty education is an improvement in the way being punched is better than being whipped.

Lynchings were not common. Many were not poor or saw their material conditions massively improve.

40% poverty rate. :^)

The 1950s were not some perfect utopia. But neither were they all bad for women and minorities.

They were…pretty bad.

1957 was in the 1950s. Duh.
There was A Civil Rights act in 1964 yes.
The Civil Rights act of 64 was not the only civil rights act.
There was also one in in 1957.

Civil rights was not passed in one law. It was a series of acts and steps.
Many of those steps happened in the 50s.

Improvement is still improvement.
Progress is relative. If things were better than before it is still progress.
40% poverty means 60% were not.
And things were much better than in the 40s.

Relative to now, many (but not all things) were worse yes.
But better than they had ever been.[/quote]
None of which means that the 50’s were good for minorities. They were better than before. But they still sucked.

It sucked to be Irish during the Troubles, but it was worse to be Irish during the Potato Famine. Does that mean it was good to be Irish during the Troubles? No.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

You’re inferring a lot from a single picture he probably got by searching “1950s family”.

Art clearly never pushes any underlying meanings whatsoever. Showing a white-only nuclear family in a 1950s-made painting says nothing whatsoever about what the average American of the time thought the American ideal was.

You’re right, but my point is that you’re projecting what you think is the underlying message upon ND as if that proves he believes in it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

This but unironically. The American lifestyle in general could use a change to be less focused on rampant materialism and hedonism.

Laughs in economic reality.

Solution: mobilize the Army, both metaphorically and literally burn Wall Street to the ground, nationalize big business and permanently intern the rich if they don't comply.

This but unironically. The American lifestyle in general could use a change to be less focused on rampant materialism and hedonism.

So, your fiscal policy could be described as “every man a serf”?

Oh no, it's far more of a social policy if anything.

[Bienenhalde]

I am pretty sure it is worse, at least for white men. Not that I think it is the fault of women and minorities, per se. It has more to do with bad decisions made by white men themselves and impersonal social forces across the grand sweep of history.

I'd blame it primarily on Capitalism, tbqh.

Yeah, and that is why I say we should return to agrarian feudalism.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

That's just plain false, in all honesty.

I agree, it should be the aim of all governments and all economic systems to try guarantee each individual a life worth living, of comfort and health if they're willing to work hard and play by the rules. Unrestrained capitalism and socialism (at least in the iterations the world has mostly suffered under) other none of it.

Distributism is the way forward, or social democracy!

[Torrocca]

I'd blame it primarily on Capitalism, tbqh.



Huh, it's almost like Capitalism fucked them over by taking business away from that area.

I'm certain you won't blame the amoralities of Capitalism, though, even as it conflicts with your Catholicism.

Stupid trade policies from the 70s on fucked over a ton of people yes. Which is why those trade policies are shit and should be reversed.

Obviously our trade policies in the 50s were better than now.

Reversing trade policies to the shit of the 1950s... somehow... isn't going to reverse the loss of industry and the crippling of the American Rust Belt that Capitalism caused.

Art clearly never pushes any underlying meanings whatsoever. Showing a white-only nuclear family in a 1950s-made painting says nothing whatsoever about what the average American of the time thought the American ideal was.

You’re right, but you’re projecting what you think is the underlying message upon ND as if that proves he believes in it.

There's clearly no underlying meaning for him to use the idealized, white-washed appearance of the 1950s to describe that decade in American history as a time when America wasn't hell, of course.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Laughs in economic reality.

Solution: mobilize the Army, both metaphorically and literally burn Wall Street to the ground, nationalize big business and permanently intern the rich if they don't comply.

So, your fiscal policy could be described as “every man a serf”?

Oh no, it's far more of a social policy if anything.

I disagree, although tbh this is more a matter of semantics, the distinction between fiscal and social policy that is.

[Kowani]

Ignoring the fact that that’s quite literally a Nazi program for a second, happiness may possibly be dropping due to unrestricted capitalism.

Two of those are basic sociology. And all of them are more conservative than fascist. I don't think children turning in their parents for bad-mouthing the Fuehrer or priests being thrown into internment camps are really consistent with those values either.

If faith is opposed to the Nation, then the Nation comes out on top. And thus, consistency.

Ignoring the fact that that’s quite literally a Nazi program for a second, happiness may possibly be dropping due to unrestricted capitalism.

I think people should follow Christianity, not engage in some idolatrous cult of racial supremacy like the Nazis did. And anyway, one can support faith, family, and patriotism while also being opposed to capitalism, which in the twenty-first century is eroding the former three.

It is a bit late to turn back the clock on some of those trends.

[Northern Davincia]

Stronger family units,

1. Interesting how you only used an image of a white nuclear family for this one. I'm sure there's absolutely no underlying meaning there, especially in regards to a country as diverse as America.

stronger faith, and firm patriotism are good for society.

2. Is that what chugging beers in front of a lawnmower with your fellow white dudes implies nowadays?

Heck, happiness nowadays is dropping rapidly.

3. Gee, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the shitty economic system that's plaguing the world.

Nah, it's clearly the fault of all the average people for refusing to be religious and patriotic.

1. Not sure why it's interesting, it's an artistic trope.
2. Social interaction, something crucial to happiness, was a fairly consistent thing before the internet.
3. If capitalism were causing unhappiness, we'd be seeing that trend emerge far sooner than within this decade. The data is against you on this one.

[Torrocca]

I'd blame it primarily on Capitalism, tbqh.

Yeah, and that is why I say we should return to agrarian feudalism.

Eww, no.

That's just plain false, in all honesty.

I agree, it should be the aim of all governments and all economic systems to try guarantee each individual a life worth living, of comfort and health if they're willing to work hard and play by the rules. Unrestrained capitalism and socialism (at least in the iterations the world has mostly suffered under) other none of it.

Distributism is the way forward, or social democracy!

Libertarian Democratic Socialism, famalam. Enjoy the fruits of socially owning the means of production with none of the horrors of Stalinist or Maoist repressions! :3

[Novus America]

Except that is clearly not the case, as things improved for women and minorities too.
It is not always a zero sum game.

Sure things were not always good for women and minorities in the 1950s and they had some disadvantages, it was still a time of great progress for them as well.

Are you kidding me? The 1950s were utter dogshit for minorities and women, even if things were improving. It wasn't just "not always good". "Not always good" is what you say about a minor inconvenience, not about a turbulent time when entire sections of society were literally fighting almost tooth and nail to have equal rights.

Utter dog shit means nothing was good. Which was clearly not the case.
And things massively improved. Things were way better than the 30s or 40s.
Yes many things were bad and worse than now. But that is not all bad.

The fact is things got much better for nearly all people in the 50s.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I agree, it should be the aim of all governments and all economic systems to try guarantee each individual a life worth living, of comfort and health if they're willing to work hard and play by the rules. Unrestrained capitalism and socialism (at least in the iterations the world has mostly suffered under) other none of it.

Distributism is the way forward, or social democracy!

Libertarian Democratic Socialism, famalam. Enjoy the fruits of socially owning the means of production with none of the horrors of Stalinist or Maoist repressions! :3

Unless you own the means of production and don't want to hand them over.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Stupid trade policies from the 70s on fucked over a ton of people yes. Which is why those trade policies are shit and should be reversed.

Obviously our trade policies in the 50s were better than now.

Reversing trade policies to the shit of the 1950s... somehow... isn't going to reverse the loss of industry and the crippling of the American Rust Belt that Capitalism caused.

You’re right, but you’re projecting what you think is the underlying message upon ND as if that proves he believes in it.

There's clearly no underlying meaning for him to use the idealized, white-washed appearance of the 1950s to describe that decade in American history as a time when America wasn't hell, of course.

Refer to literally my first post in this chain.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I'd blame it primarily on Capitalism, tbqh.

Yeah, and that is why I say we should return to agrarian feudalism.

Agrarianism, possibly (provided that the proposed society doesn’t embrace primitivism as well); however, a feudal system? I do not agree with your assertion that it would be of benefit.

[Kowani]

That's just plain false, in all honesty.

I agree, it should be the aim of all governments and all economic systems to try guarantee each individual a life worth living, of comfort and health if they're willing to work hard and play by the rules. Unrestrained capitalism and socialism (at least in the iterations the world has mostly suffered under) other none of it.

Distributism is the way forward, or social democracy!

This I can respect.

Libertarian Democratic Socialism, famalam. Enjoy the fruits of socially owning the means of production with none of the horrors of Stalinist or Maoist repressions! :3

Unless you own the means of production and don't want to hand them over.

You advocate agrarianism. You have no room to talk.

[Novus America]

Stupid trade policies from the 70s on fucked over a ton of people yes. Which is why those trade policies are shit and should be reversed.

Obviously our trade policies in the 50s were better than now.

Reversing trade policies to the shit of the 1950s... somehow... isn't going to reverse the loss of industry and the crippling of the American Rust Belt that Capitalism caused.

You’re right, but you’re projecting what you think is the underlying message upon ND as if that proves he believes in it.

There's clearly no underlying meaning for him to use the idealized, white-washed appearance of the 1950s to describe that decade in American history as a time when America wasn't hell, of course.

Explain why trade policies were shit in the 50s.
Why they were worse than those of today.
And then explain the Rust Belt.

How balanced trade is worse than the race to the bottom shit of today.

[Northern Davincia]

This but unironically. The American lifestyle in general could use a change to be less focused on rampant materialism and hedonism.

I too like to be impoverished.

Well yes, you're a socialist.

Stupid trade policies from the 70s on fucked over a ton of people yes. Which is why those trade policies are shit and should be reversed.

Obviously our trade policies in the 50s were better than now.

Reversing trade policies to the shit of the 1950s... somehow... isn't going to reverse the loss of industry and the crippling of the American Rust Belt that Capitalism caused.

The state is responsible for trade policies, if that must be said.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Libertarian Democratic Socialism, famalam. Enjoy the fruits of socially owning the means of production with none of the horrors of Stalinist or Maoist repressions! :3

Ehh, I don't mind petty capitalism and private ownership. So no thanks, I think I prefer my union of small business owners, worker cooperatives and smallholder farmers.

[Torrocca]

1. Interesting how you only used an image of a white nuclear family for this one. I'm sure there's absolutely no underlying meaning there, especially in regards to a country as diverse as America.



2. Is that what chugging beers in front of a lawnmower with your fellow white dudes implies nowadays?



3. Gee, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the shitty economic system that's plaguing the world.

Nah, it's clearly the fault of all the average people for refusing to be religious and patriotic.

1. Not sure why it's interesting, it's an artistic trope.

Lol, no it's not. Those two paintings you posted are quite clearly essentially white-washed bullshit showing the average American's ideal of the time, and that somehow proves America wasn't hell in that time.

2. Social interaction, something crucial to happiness, was a fairly consistent thing before the internet.

It still is. That's utterly irrelevant how that ties into faith and patriotism.

3. If capitalism were causing unhappiness, we'd be seeing that trend emerge far sooner than within this decade. The data is against you on this one.

I like how you just disproved your own claim that happiness is rapidly dropping when that page shows an average increase.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You advocate agrarianism. You have no room to talk.

Tis worth noting my idea of agrarianism is very likely different from the usual sorts who carry that banner. I'm not as rabidly opposed to any and all non-rural living as some folks, I just believe it's superior and better both for the community and the individual and should be encouraged by the government.

[Bienenhalde]

I think people should follow Christianity, not engage in some idolatrous cult of racial supremacy like the Nazis did. And anyway, one can support faith, family, and patriotism while also being opposed to capitalism, which in the twenty-first century is eroding the former three.

It is a bit late to turn back the clock on some of those trends.

I sure hope it is not too late. If we want to avoid a literal dystopia, we have no choice but to try and fight against such things.

[Fahran]

Two of those are basic sociology. And all of them are more conservative than fascist. I don't think children turning in their parents for bad-mouthing the Fuehrer or priests being thrown into internment camps are really consistent with those values either.

If faith is opposed to the Nation, then the Nation comes out on top. And thus, consistency.

I think people should follow Christianity, not engage in some idolatrous cult of racial supremacy like the Nazis did. And anyway, one can support faith, family, and patriotism while also being opposed to capitalism, which in the twenty-first century is eroding the former three.

It is a bit late to turn back the clock on some of those trends.

Attributing consistency or deeper meaning to the Nazis is a peculiar pastime. They didn't care about the family or church to any genuine degree. If they had, they wouldn't have subverted them or transfigured them into vehicles of ideology that could be disposed of when convenient. Their priorities were race and the state.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Libertarian Democratic Socialism, famalam. Enjoy the fruits of socially owning the means of production with none of the horrors of Stalinist or Maoist repressions! :3

Ehh, I don't mind petty capitalism and private ownership. So no thanks, I think I prefer my union of small business owners, worker cooperatives and smallholder farmers.

So a vaguely corporatist and/or syndicalist economic policy, then? I mean, it fits well with the aforementioned distributism.