Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[CrvenaParsa]

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

Why do you think that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was inevitable, though?

Probably not inevitable, but hard to avoid. Had the great war not happened it probably would have ended up some sort of rump state

[Salus Maior]

The Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world inherited some of Roman culture, but I would not call them Western. Only the Western Roman Empire was Western. I mean even though the Romans influenced the culture of the Eastern Roman Empire, as soon as the empire broke in two the culture of the eastern empire began evolving along its own distinct trajectory.

So North Africa is Western?

Honestly, the whole world is western.

Because if you keep going west you'll find yourself going around the whole world.

Argument solved.

[Bienenhalde]

The Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world inherited some of Roman culture, but I would not call them Western. Only the Western Roman Empire was Western. I mean even though the Romans influenced the culture of the Eastern Roman Empire, as soon as the empire broke in two the culture of the eastern empire began evolving along its own distinct trajectory.

So North Africa is Western?

No. It was arguably part of the West when it was ruled by the Romans and the Vandals, but it was definitively separated from the west after it was conquered by the Umayyad Caliphate.

[Conserative Morality]

So North Africa is Western?

Honestly, the whole world is western.

Because if you keep going west you'll find yourself going around the whole world.

Argument solved.

I don't hold truck with your 'science', you Abrahamic fancypants! IT'S TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN

[North German Realm]

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

Why do you think that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was inevitable, though?

Because it was an a religion-based Empire ruling realms full of Ethnocentric "Nationalist" tendencies, with no power to back its claim to Empire up against its own subjects, and because it had slowly but surely decayed since early 1800s.

[Novus America]

Russia was the only truly absolutist country. The Central Powers were all constitutional monarchs (Actually, idk if the Ottomans were).

The dual-monarchy was constitutional in name only. The emperor ruled as he wished - only the institutions were restrained by rule of law. The Ottoman Empire was freshly out of monarchial absolutism and into a military junta, effectively. Germany was the only exception amongst the major belligerents.

After the death of Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg in 1852, the Minister of the Interior Baron Alexander von Bach largely dictated policy in Austria and Hungary. Bach centralized administrative authority for the Austrian Empire, but he also endorsed reactionary policies that reduced freedom of the press and abandoned public trials. He later represented the Absolutist (or Klerikalabsolutist) direction, which culminated in the concordat of August 1855 that gave the Roman Catholic Church control over education and family life. This period in the history of the Austrian Empire would become known as the era of neo-absolutism, or Bach's absolutism.

That was before the 1867 reforms.
After 1867 the Hungarian nobility gained a lot of power.

The Emperor has largely unrestricted power in the Austrian areas, but more limited power in the Hungarian areas.

[Conserative Morality]

That was before the 1867 reforms.
After 1867 the Hungarian nobility gained a lot of power.

Only in Hungary, and only nominally.

[Salus Maior]

That was before the 1867 reforms.
After 1867 the Hungarian nobility gained a lot of power.

Only in Hungary, and only nominally.

It definitely wasn't nominal power.

In fact, Hungary used it's granted rights and powers to make sure other constituents in the Empire would not receive similar rights, such as Bohemia. Because otherwise there would have been precedent to give rights to the minorities living within Hungary (Slovaks, Serbs, Romanians, etc.), which they absolutely did not want to do.

[Novus America]

That was before the 1867 reforms.
After 1867 the Hungarian nobility gained a lot of power.

Only in Hungary, and only nominally.

True the Emperor remained largely unrestricted in power outside the Hungarian areas, but the Hungarian government could and did resist rulings from Vienna.

One of the biggest impediments to further reform was Hungary resisting it.

The latter years the Empire was pretty much in a continual political crisis caused by disputes between Austria and Hungary.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

Well they are gonna be Superpowers by 2020....

Superpower =/= western. Also, proof?

Friendly reminder that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire would probably have happened in a much much more bloody manner had the Great War not effectively euthanized it.

Why do you think that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was inevitable, though?

Well by the time WW1 came around the OE was doing pretty bad. It's wasn't called the "Sick Man of Europe" for nothing.

So North Africa is Western?

No. It was arguably part of the West when it was ruled by the Romans and the Vandals, but it was definitively separated from the west after it was conquered by the Umayyad Caliphate.

Gang gang!

[CrvenaParsa]

Well they are gonna be Superpowers by 2020....

Superpower =/= western. Also, proof?

It's an internet meme

[Yusseria]

Well they are gonna be Superpowers by 2020....

Superpower =/= western. Also, proof?

Why do you think that the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was inevitable, though?

Well by the time WW1 came around the OE was doing pretty bad. It's wasn't called the "Sick Man of Europe" for nothing.

No. It was arguably part of the West when it was ruled by the Romans and the Vandals, but it was definitively separated from the west after it was conquered by the Umayyad Caliphate.

Gang gang!

Hate to say it but you'd give alt-rightists plenty of propaganda.

[Novus America]

Who the fuck thinks India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are Western?

Well they are gonna be Superpowers by 2020....

Only India might become a super power. Pakistan and Bangladesh can only become superpowers by becoming part of India again. On their own, no way.

Also it is 2020 next year and India is still a long ways away from being a superpower.

Maybe by 2040 India will be. Maybe.

But being a superpower has nothing to do with being Western.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Superpower =/= western. Also, proof?

Well by the time WW1 came around the OE was doing pretty bad. It's wasn't called the "Sick Man of Europe" for nothing.

Gang gang!

Hate to say it but you'd give alt-rightists plenty of propaganda.

Gang. Gang.

[Sirocca]

Seeing many of the facets of the neoliberal world that's existed since the end of WW2 erode is immensely gratifying.

Really it is the Post Cold War world that really brought about modern neoliberalism.
The economic order of the 50s was very different than now.
Modern neoliberalism only really started in the 70s and only became dominant in the 90s.
Reagan believed in some protectionism and never would have supported outsourcing our jobs and manufacturing to the Soviets. By today’s standards his protectionism would make the neoliberals call him a fascist.

But yes, destroying the 90s and early 2000s neoliberalism is a beautiful thing.
Because that neoliberalism is the biggest threat we face, has done massive damage, and it is us or it. It is an existential battle of survival. Either we kill it, or it kills us.

What about the counter-culture movement of the 1960s that were the seed of the later moral freefall of the West that began during the 70s?

[Conserative Morality]

Is Gang Gang like some kind of new pokemon?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Is Gang Gang like some kind of new pokemon?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urband ... g&amp=true
That'd be cool if it was tho

[Yusseria]

Is Gang Gang like some kind of new pokemon?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AEDqbcgADNg

[Conserative Morality]

Really it is the Post Cold War world that really brought about modern neoliberalism.
The economic order of the 50s was very different than now.
Modern neoliberalism only really started in the 70s and only became dominant in the 90s.
Reagan believed in some protectionism and never would have supported outsourcing our jobs and manufacturing to the Soviets. By today’s standards his protectionism would make the neoliberals call him a fascist.

But yes, destroying the 90s and early 2000s neoliberalism is a beautiful thing.
Because that neoliberalism is the biggest threat we face, has done massive damage, and it is us or it. It is an existential battle of survival. Either we kill it, or it kills us.

What about the counter-culture movement of the 1960s that were the seed of the later moral freefall of the West that began during the 70s?

Lynching Black People: Moral West
Not Being Ashamed Of Sexuality: Immoral West

[Hanafuridake]

Honestly, the whole world is western.

Because if you keep going west you'll find yourself going around the whole world.

Argument solved.

I don't hold truck with your 'science', you Abrahamic fancypants! IT'S TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN

He doesn't know that the world is actually flat with Mt. Sumeru in the center.

What are you, some kind of Lokayata.

[Novus America]

Really it is the Post Cold War world that really brought about modern neoliberalism.
The economic order of the 50s was very different than now.
Modern neoliberalism only really started in the 70s and only became dominant in the 90s.
Reagan believed in some protectionism and never would have supported outsourcing our jobs and manufacturing to the Soviets. By today’s standards his protectionism would make the neoliberals call him a fascist.

But yes, destroying the 90s and early 2000s neoliberalism is a beautiful thing.
Because that neoliberalism is the biggest threat we face, has done massive damage, and it is us or it. It is an existential battle of survival. Either we kill it, or it kills us.

What about the counter-culture movement of the 1960s that were the seed of the later moral freefall of the West that began during the 70s?

I was talking purely in terms of trade policies.
I would not say the West is in moral free fall either.
Certainly there are problems, but also the counterculture stuff in the late 60s was also exaggerated either. The 60s was not all (or even mostly) hippies.

[Sirocca]

Do you all think that the fast-pacing globalization of our contemporary era will one day in the future remove the nation-state? Corporations no longer profess loyalty to the nation, instead professing loyalty to the place where they can gain the most profit. I think it is reasonable to believe that Bitcoin will replace the dollar as the worlds most powerful currency in the 21st century.

Because of this, I believe that one day, an armed conflict will arise between those who want to keep the nation-state and those who believe that nationalism has only been a curse to humanity, the cosmopolitans.

I don't think it will remove nation-states* completely. If at most, technology may just lessen the influence that governments have over the citizens of a nation, but I think the nation itself will still survive.

[Hanafuridake]

Hate to say it but you'd give alt-rightists plenty of propaganda.

Gang. Gang.

“The alt-right is bad, btw wasn't it funny how my religion slaughtered all those non-believers.”

[Sirocca]

This just exemplifies how meaningless "the West" is as a concept. The West is whatever the speaker wants it to be.

This. The West is an incredibly vague and nebulous concept. If democratic institutions were what makes the West, then the West would have no history.

Yeah, somebody can also say "the West" is an SJW-paradise and LGBTABCD+ anti-straight, anti-white paradise and anybody who doesn't have the same worldview is a fascist or anti-Western, which has a pretty irony.

[Kowani]

Do you all think that the fast-pacing globalization of our contemporary era will one day in the future remove the nation-state? Corporations no longer profess loyalty to the nation, instead professing loyalty to the place where they can gain the most profit. I think it is reasonable to believe that Bitcoin will replace the dollar as the worlds most powerful currency in the 21st century.

Because of this, I believe that one day, an armed conflict will arise between those who want to keep the nation-state and those who believe that nationalism has only been a curse to humanity, the cosmopolitans.

I don't think it will remove nation-states* completely. If at most, technology may just lessen the influence that governments have over the citizens of a nation, but I think the nation itself will still survive.

Nation-States are a dying breed, and this populist alt-right movement is their dying gasp.