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Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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To what ethical philosophy do you subscribe?

Ethical Egoism
12
11%
Act Utilitarianism
7
6%
Rule Utilitarianism
7
6%
Kantian Ethics
6
5%
Virtue Ethics
19
17%
Nihilism/YOLO
18
16%
Radical Subjectivism
2
2%
Cultural Relativism
3
3%
Divine Command Theory
18
16%
Natural Law Theory
20
18%
 
Total votes : 112

User avatar
Fahran
Senator
 
Posts: 4303
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue May 07, 2019 2:02 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:... no. The primary regression in women's rights from the Medieval period to the Renaissance is found in stricter application of existing laws and the integration of previously free cities into the greater legal structure of their overlords.

It's not merely that existing laws were more strictly enforced. Many of the property and work-related rights that women had enjoyed up until the High Middle Ages were significantly diminished as the Renaissance began to take off. Some of this had to do with the rediscovery of Roman classics that tended to idealize more demur, subservient women, but a lot of it had to do with the emergence of an early mercantile class and the solidification of guilds as economically viable institutions that could restrict women's ability to compete with men.

Conserative Morality wrote:"The institution of crusading"

:thonk:

Was it not an institution?

Conserative Morality wrote:Rarely. More often the clergy were taking concubines themselves.

While a snide remark or two can be biting and humorous, concubinage does seem to have declined in an official capacity by the end of the Dark Ages. The marriageable age, likewise, climbed to the early twenties in places like England by the time of the High Middle Ages. This, together with the emphasis on consent between spouses as an essential religiously mandated component of lawful marriage, meant that women probably enjoyed more rights at this point than at many points during the Classical Period.

Conserative Morality wrote:No. Not even close. Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck is with the rampant Medieval apologism?

While Roman women seem to have generally married in their late teens or early twenties, the marriageable age was considerably lower for noblewomen. While consent was deemed important by the Romans as a prerequisite for marriage, the institution of manus marriage was arguably more restrictive of women than the institution that had emerged by the Early Middle Ages. Augustus's laws didn't really help matters. And don't even get me started on Athens.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76669
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue May 07, 2019 2:15 pm

Fahran wrote:It's not merely that existing laws were more strictly enforced. Many of the property and work-related rights that women had enjoyed up until the High Middle Ages were significantly diminished as the Renaissance began to take off.

>> when Salic law is now a Renaissance institution

10/10
Some of this had to do with the rediscovery of Roman classics that tended to idealize more demur, subservient women,

And which classics were those, again?
but a lot of it had to do with the emergence of an early mercantile class and the solidification of guilds as economically viable institutions that could restrict women's ability to compete with men.

Women and the guilds coexisted for quite some time before the decline in women's rights. What made the change was the increasing interest of the national polity run by kings and nobles to bring the cities in line with the legal and moral standards of the feudal structure, largely based on Salic law.
Was it not an institution?

Not one on a familial level.
While a snide remark or two can be biting and humorous, concubinage does seem to have declined in an official capacity by the end of the Dark Ages.

Since fucking when? Concubinage was fucking rampant, even amongst the clergy, until the 13th-14th centuries.

The marriageable age, likewise, climbed to the early twenties in places like England by the time of the High Middle Ages.

No, the marriageable age in England was, from the 12th to the 19th century, 12. The average age is estimated in the early 20s for the common folk; and much lower for the nobility - a criticism you cast at Ancient Rome as a 'contrast' later in your post.
This, together with the emphasis on consent between spouses as an essential religiously mandated component of lawful marriage,

"Consent" is a pretty generous term for what amounted to "Marry this guy or we'll send you off to a convent".
meant that women probably enjoyed more rights at this point than at many points during the Classical Period.

... because the minimum age of marriage was the same as it was in the Principate, and because they needed consent, like in the Principate?

????????
While Roman women seem to have generally married in their late teens or early twenties, the marriageable age was considerably lower for noblewomen. While consent was deemed important by the Romans as a prerequisite for marriage, the institution of manus marriage was arguably more restrictive of women than the institution that had emerged by the Early Middle Ages. Augustus's laws didn't really help matters. And don't even get me started on Athens.

Manus marriage was dead by the Late Republic even in the upper classes, much less the Principate, and it didn't make a revival.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 2:16 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Interesting, I didn't know the Cossacks enjoyed crucifying people on hills.

Image

I didn't know British Dragoons liked to do the same.

The welsh are the ones who are supposed to have dragons.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 2:17 pm

Reply to this is you think liberals shouldn’t be here.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 14893
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 07, 2019 2:43 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Reply to this is you think liberals shouldn’t be here.

I'd rather you weren't here, to be perfectly honest.

As I have said before, I look at "neoreactionaries" in much the same way I assume a hard-core Marxist would look at a kid who had decided to be a communist after playing Red Alert. It's just embarrassing.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
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User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 2:51 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Reply to this is you think liberals shouldn’t be here.

I'd rather you weren't here, to be perfectly honest.

As I have said before, I look at "neoreactionaries" in much the same way I assume a hard-core Marxist would look at a kid who had decided to be a communist after playing Red Alert. It's just embarrassing.

And why do you think I’m a neoreactionary? There certainly is little mention of them in media. They aren’t cool by most standards. Not even popular. And who is the “hard core Marxist” type you are alluding to? Fascism? I know I’m not a fascist and I will not pretend to be.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 62951
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Tue May 07, 2019 2:52 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Reply to this is you think liberals shouldn’t be here.

I'd rather you weren't here, to be perfectly honest.

As I have said before, I look at "neoreactionaries" in much the same way I assume a hard-core Marxist would look at a kid who had decided to be a communist after playing Red Alert. It's just embarrassing.

Red Alert 2 only, the original Red Alert you work directly for fucking STALIN.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

Proud denouncer of the Taliban.

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 14893
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 07, 2019 2:57 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:And why do you think I’m a neoreactionary?

It's literally in your signature.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
Factbook | Tyrannian Empire | Tyrannian Fascism
Everything for Queen and Country.

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 2:59 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:And why do you think I’m a neoreactionary?

It's literally in your signature.

I meant why do you think I became one.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 2:59 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I'd rather you weren't here, to be perfectly honest.

As I have said before, I look at "neoreactionaries" in much the same way I assume a hard-core Marxist would look at a kid who had decided to be a communist after playing Red Alert. It's just embarrassing.

Red Alert 2 only, the original Red Alert you work directly for fucking STALIN.

It’s funny how it is acceptable to make a game about the ussr but not nazi germany is positive light.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
Posts: 2628
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue May 07, 2019 3:04 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Red Alert 2 only, the original Red Alert you work directly for fucking STALIN.

It’s funny how it is acceptable to make a game about the ussr but not nazi germany is positive light.

lol red alert doesn't portray the USSR in a positive light.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist gang

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:05 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:It’s funny how it is acceptable to make a game about the ussr but not nazi germany is positive light.

lol red alert doesn't portray the USSR in a positive light.

The liberals who freak if they put nazi germany instead though.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20996
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue May 07, 2019 3:06 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Image

I didn't know British Dragoons liked to do the same.

The welsh are the ones who are supposed to have dragons.


I hope you're kidding.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:The welsh are the ones who are supposed to have dragons.


I hope you're kidding.

Yes- would make for an epic painting though.
Last edited by Communist Zombie Horde on Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
Posts: 2628
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue May 07, 2019 3:09 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:lol red alert doesn't portray the USSR in a positive light.

The liberals who freak if they put nazi germany instead though.

why exactly are you complaining this much about a video game?
Image

playing the bad guy is fun.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist gang

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20996
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue May 07, 2019 3:09 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:lol red alert doesn't portray the USSR in a positive light.

The liberals who freak if they put nazi germany instead though.


Nonsense, I play as Nazi Germany in HoI4 all the time.

Mostly because they have the funnest start.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76669
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue May 07, 2019 3:10 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:lol red alert doesn't portray the USSR in a positive light.

The liberals who freak if they put nazi germany instead though.

Ever play CoH?

Guess not.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 14893
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 07, 2019 3:13 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:It's literally in your signature.

I meant why do you think I became one.

I'm not sure that I can answer you honestly and frankly without it coming off as a personal attack, which would be a violation of the site rules. Suffice to say I don't think it was a rational or well-informed decision.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
Factbook | Tyrannian Empire | Tyrannian Fascism
Everything for Queen and Country.

User avatar
Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:15 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:The liberals who freak if they put nazi germany instead though.

Ever play CoH?

Guess not.

What is the bias or inaccurate portrayal as someone who plays it?
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

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Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:I meant why do you think I became one.

I'm not sure that I can answer you honestly and frankly without it coming off as a personal attack, which would be a violation of the site rules. Suffice to say I don't think it was a rational or well-informed decision.

Better than fascism or liberalism by far.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6486
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 07, 2019 3:18 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I'm not sure that I can answer you honestly and frankly without it coming off as a personal attack, which would be a violation of the site rules. Suffice to say I don't think it was a rational or well-informed decision.

Better than fascism or liberalism by far.

Can you define liberalism for me?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, I would prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20996
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue May 07, 2019 3:18 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I'm not sure that I can answer you honestly and frankly without it coming off as a personal attack, which would be a violation of the site rules. Suffice to say I don't think it was a rational or well-informed decision.

Better than fascism or liberalism by far.


I don't think you really understand what either of those terms mean, tbh.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 14893
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I'm not sure that I can answer you honestly and frankly without it coming off as a personal attack, which would be a violation of the site rules. Suffice to say I don't think it was a rational or well-informed decision.

Better than fascism or liberalism by far.

Not really. It more or less combines the worst characteristics of both.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
Factbook | Tyrannian Empire | Tyrannian Fascism
Everything for Queen and Country.

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Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:20 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Better than fascism or liberalism by far.

Not really. It more or less combines the worst characteristics of both.

Best actually. A great free and fair economy and free thought with nationalism and social efficiency.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

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Communist Zombie Horde
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Jan 04, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Communist Zombie Horde » Tue May 07, 2019 3:22 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Better than fascism or liberalism by far.

Can you define liberalism for me?

A socially left ideology that believes in freedom and is against “human rights abuses” originally witha free market that was corrupted by socialists and sjws introducing Marxist policies and superiority of the “oppressed” now used almost solely by leftist traitors.
NS Parliament: Arnold Delbert; National People's Party

This nation is not entirely representative of my views. I've had some fun with the stats and I want to keep them that way.

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