Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Jack Thomas Lang]

No, by legally permissible, I meant “should be allowed.” In the case of everything you said, I don’t believe it should be allowed because, well. Pragmatism.

You'll have to explain how pragmatism makes things right or wrong, or if you prefer, illegal and legal.

[Kowani]

No, by legally permissible, I meant “should be allowed.” In the case of everything you said, I don’t believe it should be allowed because, well. Pragmatism.

You'll have to explain how pragmatism makes things right or wrong, or if you prefer, illegal and legal.

It doesn’t actually make them wrong or right. It’s a matter of permissibility.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

It doesn’t actually make them wrong or right. It’s a matter of permissibility.

Go on then. I'm curious to how pragmatism is used to decide whether something should be permitted or not.

[Kowani]

It doesn’t actually make them wrong or right. It’s a matter of permissibility.

Go on then. I'm curious to how pragmatism is used to decide whether something should be permitted or not.

Step 1. Can it hurt me? Yes/no.
Step 2. Can it be logically used to justify harming me? Yes/no.
Step 3. Can it harm my support networks? Yes/no.
Step 4. Does it tangibly improve the material circumstances of the lives of the citizenry? Yes/no.

[Grenartia]

Lol...By that standard, are Globalists the most reactionary, since they can be said to take inspiration from the Tower of Babel?

Corporate globalism is hedonist degeneracy, and needs to be destroyed.

Socialist globalist hedonist degeneracy is the only way forward.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Step 1. Can it hurt me? Yes/no.
Step 2. Can it be logically used to justify harming me? Yes/no.
Step 3. Can it harm my support networks? Yes/no.
Step 4. Does it tangibly improve the material circumstances of the lives of the citizenry? Yes/no.

You certainly don't act like your life, and the lives of others, are meaningless. You're probably not an existential nihilist.

Although, do you believe that it isn't wrong if someone killed you? You may yet be a genuine moral nihilist, which is rare.

[Kowani]

Corporate globalism is hedonist degeneracy, and needs to be destroyed.

Socialist globalist hedonist degeneracy is the only way forward.

Full global automation. Onwards and forwards.

[Bienenhalde]

It's an awful idea which would result in the breakdown of families because people are paired together who are not at all attracted to each other. I'm pretty sure that this would be a major violation of Christian beliefs on marriage too, considering that the husband and wife are supposed to become one flesh, which is kind of hard to do when you're being forced to marry blindly.

Don't we already have a high divorce rate and widespread breakdown of families? Didn't societies in the past with arranged marriage have lower divorce rates? What do you think becoming one flesh means? Isn't having children together becoming one flesh? And wouldn't this system be more in line with right-wing conservative values?

[Hanafuridake]

Corporate globalism is hedonist degeneracy, and needs to be destroyed.

Socialist globalist hedonist degeneracy is the only way forward.

Buddhist universal kingship is what will save humanity. If only we had a Chakravartin.

[Kowani]

Step 1. Can it hurt me? Yes/no.
Step 2. Can it be logically used to justify harming me? Yes/no.
Step 3. Can it harm my support networks? Yes/no.
Step 4. Does it tangibly improve the material circumstances of the lives of the citizenry? Yes/no.

You certainly don't act like your life, and the lives of others, are meaningless. You're probably not an existential nihilist.

Essentially: On the cosmic scale, all of our lives are meaningless. Hitler had, in the very long run, the same amount of effect as a medieval peasant’s child who died at one. But we don’t experience things on the cosmic scale, our perception is much smaller than that. We experience things and thus they have value to us. As such, due to the fact that we are alive, I see no reason not to enjoy life.

Although, do you believe that it isn't wrong if someone killed you? You may yet be a genuine moral nihilist, which is rare.

Wrong? Nah. Would I be happy about it? Well, I’d be dead, so I don’t suppose I’d care.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It's an awful idea which would result in the breakdown of families because people are paired together who are not at all attracted to each other. I'm pretty sure that this would be a major violation of Christian beliefs on marriage too, considering that the husband and wife are supposed to become one flesh, which is kind of hard to do when you're being forced to marry blindly.

Don't we already have a high divorce rate and widespread breakdown of families? Didn't societies in the past with arranged marriage have lower divorce rates? What do you think becoming one flesh means? Isn't having children together becoming one flesh? And wouldn't this system be more in line with right-wing conservative values?

If you introduce arranged marriages in the west, without changing the culture, divorce rates would race astronomically.

[Grenartia]

It's an awful idea which would result in the breakdown of families because people are paired together who are not at all attracted to each other. I'm pretty sure that this would be a major violation of Christian beliefs on marriage too, considering that the husband and wife are supposed to become one flesh, which is kind of hard to do when you're being forced to marry blindly.

Don't we already have a high divorce rate and widespread breakdown of families? Didn't societies in the past with arranged marriage have lower divorce rates? What do you think becoming one flesh means? Isn't having children together becoming one flesh? And wouldn't this system be more in line with right-wing conservative values?

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.

Memes aside, it really is a bad fucking idea, like all ideas social conservatism has come up with.

Socialist globalist hedonist degeneracy is the only way forward.

Buddhist universal kingship is what will save humanity. If only we had a Chakravartin.

I have no idea what that is, but down with monarchs! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So wait, you think that robbery, murder and rape is only "bad" because its illegal?

No, by legally permissible, I meant “should be allowed.” In the case of everything you said, I don’t believe it should be allowed because, well. Pragmatism.

What happens when its not? When the government encourages the robbery, murder and rape of targeted people because it suits their aim? It's neither "pragmatically stupid", since doing the government's will loyally guarantees benefits, comforts and spoils from victims, and its no longer illegal. What then?

Not my argument.

So the only thing stopping you from being okay with those crimes is cold hard pragmatism?

You are aware of what nihilism is, no?

Honestly I'm not too well informed on nihilism as an ethical system. But if that means the answer is yes, then... oof. Bruh moment.

[Kowani]

No, by legally permissible, I meant “should be allowed.” In the case of everything you said, I don’t believe it should be allowed because, well. Pragmatism.

Not my argument.


You are aware of what nihilism is, no?

Honestly I'm not too well informed on nihilism as an ethical system. But if that means the answer is yes, then... oof. Bruh moment.

My particular brand of nihilism holds that there are no moral truths. Nothing is right or wrong.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Essentially: On the cosmic scale, all of our lives are meaningless. Hitler had, in the very long run, the same amount of effect as a medieval peasant’s child who died at one. But we don’t experience things on the cosmic scale, our perception is much smaller than that. We experience things and thus they have value to us. As such, due to the fact that we are alive, I see no reason not to enjoy life.

That's not quite what I meant. Your last step suggested that you cared about the livelihoods of people who don't affect you (unless citizens only refer to fellow citizens of... Spain was it?), which doesn't line up with nihilism's view of life as meaningless and worthless. By this point I don't really doubt your nihilism, but I think that you are more of an egoist.

[Kowani]

Essentially: On the cosmic scale, all of our lives are meaningless. Hitler had, in the very long run, the same amount of effect as a medieval peasant’s child who died at one. But we don’t experience things on the cosmic scale, our perception is much smaller than that. We experience things and thus they have value to us. As such, due to the fact that we are alive, I see no reason not to enjoy life.

That's not quite what I meant. Your last step suggested that you cared about the livelihoods of people who don't affect you (unless citizens only refer to fellow citizens of... Spain was it?), which doesn't line up with nihilism's view of life as meaningless and worthless. By this point I don't really doubt your nihilism, but I think that you are more of an egoist.

I like hyperbolic terms. But. Because globalization is a thing, I have to care about the livelihoods of non Spanish citizens. If Germany has trouble, I’m screwed. However, some random guy in Papua New Guinea? Completely irrelevant.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I like hyperbolic terms. But. Because globalization is a thing, I have to care about the livelihoods of non Spanish citizens. If Germany has trouble, I’m screwed. However, some random guy in Papua New Guinea? Completely irrelevant.

So the repression of gays in Egypt and Brunei doesn't matter and doesn't need to be stopped?

[Hanafuridake]

Buddhist universal kingship is what will save humanity. If only we had a Chakravartin.

I have no idea what that is, but down with monarchs! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!

That was the last that Comrade Gren was ever heard from again, because the socialist dictator they helped rise to power had them executed for wearing glasses.

[Kowani]

I like hyperbolic terms. But. Because globalization is a thing, I have to care about the livelihoods of non Spanish citizens. If Germany has trouble, I’m screwed. However, some random guy in Papua New Guinea? Completely irrelevant.

So the repression of gays in Egypt and Brunei doesn't matter and doesn't need to be stopped?

In the long run? Nah. I can’t do anything to change it, so I’m not going to take a stand.

Besides, I subscribe to the Theory of Progress. Things’ll get better eventually.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So the repression of gays in Egypt and Brunei doesn't matter and doesn't need to be stopped?

In the long run? Nah. I can’t do anything to change it, so I’m not going to take a stand.

Besides, I subscribe to the Theory of Progress. Things’ll get better eventually.

Isn't things getting better a value judgement?

[Duhon]

Socialist globalist hedonist degeneracy is the only way forward.

Buddhist universal kingship is what will save humanity. If only we had a Chakravartin.

For the record, I get turned on by universals.

[Kowani]

In the long run? Nah. I can’t do anything to change it, so I’m not going to take a stand.

Besides, I subscribe to the Theory of Progress. Things’ll get better eventually.

Isn't things getting better a value judgement?

I was working from his perspective of Gay Rights being an inherent good.

But from a materialist perspective, no, because repression is inefficient.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Buddhist universal kingship is what will save humanity. If only we had a Chakravartin.

For the record, I get turned on by universals.

What are universals, and how are they arousing?

[Hanafuridake]

So the repression of gays in Egypt and Brunei doesn't matter and doesn't need to be stopped?

In the long run? Nah. I can’t do anything to change it, so I’m not going to take a stand.

Besides, I subscribe to the Theory of Progress. Things’ll get better eventually.

Mankind surely does not represent an evolution toward a better or stronger or higher level, as progress is now understood. This “progress” is merely a modern idea, which is to say, a false idea. The European of today, in his essential worth, falls far below the European of the Renaissance; the process of evolution does not necessarily mean elevation, enhancement, strengthening.

[Duhon]

For the record, I get turned on by universals.

What are universals, and how are they arousing?

I'm a globalist.