Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[Benuty]

Fulfilling that craving beings pleasure.

Are you a Cenobite?

The Cenobites are an interesting bunch they actually aren't egoists/nihilistic since they believe those that get sent to their version of hell deserve to be there.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

If I may ask, is your metaphysical position a form of radical eliminative materialism, by any chance?

Haven’t we done this before?
But yes.

I mean I suppose our Romantic delusions prevent us from doing what is morally right. For example, falling in love and marrying someone even though that marriage leads to estrangement from one's family.

But in doing so, you can create a new family, a healthier one.

Hmm. Perhaps we have gone through this debacle before; my bad.

Ah, so you’re familiar with The New Order: The Last Days of Europe, then?

Yeah, and I have to say the mod shows great promise.

Indeed; I’m fascinated by the alt-history scenario presented, since it subverts the hackneyed “invincible Reich that lasts forever” trope.

[Kowani]

Not nearly to the degree they did in the 50’s, no.

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Fulfilling that craving beings pleasure.

Are you a Cenobite?

What?

[Kowani]

Haven’t we done this before?
But yes.


But in doing so, you can create a new family, a healthier one.

Hmm. Perhaps we have gone through this debacle before; my bad.
[

Although I remember last time we did this, one of my posts got screwed over by forum software.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Are you a Cenobite?

What?

Are you familiar with the film Hellraiser by any chance?

[Benuty]

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Are you a Cenobite?

What?

Basically, beings that enjoy such extreme pleasure that it goes into pain, and they lure such likeminded individuals to their doom, drag them to hell, and warp them into cenobites such as themselves.

[Kowani]

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?


What?

Are you familiar with the film Hellraiser by any chance?

Nah.

[Novus America]

Depends on how we define "respect."

Minorities had the benefit of family support structures and not facing overwhelming gang violence, in addition to a widespread prevalence of drugs.

Laughs in lack of Civil Rights, education, mass poverty, economic and political disenfranchisement, lynchings, and discrimination.

Are you taking about the 1850s?

Civil rights made huge advances in the 1950s. Brown was 1954.
They did have access to education. Not always equal and perfect education.
Though they still do not.

Lynchings were not common. Many were not poor or saw their material conditions massively improve. Did race based violence exist including sometimes murder exist? Absolutely.
Does it still exist? Well yes.

Did black poverty exist? Yes of course.
It does now as well.

The destruction of factory jobs from the 70s onward was a major blow to material conditions many in the black community. For many now poverty is not less.

The 1950s were not some perfect utopia. But neither were they all bad for women and minorities.
The truth is much more complicated.

[Bienenhalde]

I mean I suppose our Romantic delusions prevent us from doing what is morally right. For example, falling in love and marrying someone even though that marriage leads to estrangement from one's family.

But in doing so, you can create a new family, a healthier one.

Not necessarily. What if you do not have any children? What if you fall out of love as time passes? The intense passion of young love is usually temporary.

[Hanafuridake]

Deep down we're all motivated by craving, sometimes for pleasure, but this is not the only form of craving.

Fulfilling that craving beings pleasure.

During my adolescence there were times where I had been depressed and desired to not exist. The state of non-existence is totally devoid of pain or pleasure, hence it disputes the idea that we merely crave things which bring us pleasure.

[Benuty]

Are you familiar with the film Hellraiser by any chance?

Nah.

It's actually a decent watch if you get the time.

[Torrocca]

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Because white men prospered at everyone else's expense, duh. Did you not see the wholesome, totally-not-propaganda-in-any-way-whatsoever-that-whitewashes-the-1950s painting of a happy, healthy white nuclear family living a good life in the 1950s that emphasized the white men by putting them at the forefront of the piece? That clearly means the 1950s was a stellar time that we should definitely revert back to!

[Benuty]

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Because white men prospered at everyone else's expense, duh. Did you not see the wholesome, totally-not-propaganda-in-any-way-whatsoever-that-whitewashes-the-1950s painting of a happy, healthy white nuclear family living a good life in the 1950s that emphasized the white men by putting them at the forefront of the piece? That clearly means the 1950s was a stellar time that we should definitely revert back to!

That wasn't even their argument though?

[Novus America]

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Are you a Cenobite?

What?

Because the 1950s were a massive step forward on civil rights?

[Bienenhalde]

Fulfilling that craving beings pleasure.

During my adolescence there were times where I had been depressed and desired to not exist. The state of non-existence is totally devoid of pain or pleasure, hence it disputes the idea that we merely crave things which bring us pleasure.

And do you still wish that you would not exist?

[Northern Davincia]

Two steps forward, one step back is ultimately how race relations in the US have been since the 50s (or Reconstruction, arguably).

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Are you a Cenobite?

What?

Overall, the 50s were good. I never said they were universally good. Also, I highly recommend the Hellraiser films. They explore the kind of hedonism being tossed around here from time to time.

[Torrocca]

Because white men prospered at everyone else's expense, duh. Did you not see the wholesome, totally-not-propaganda-in-any-way-whatsoever-that-whitewashes-the-1950s painting of a happy, healthy white nuclear family living a good life in the 1950s that emphasized the white men by putting them at the forefront of the piece? That clearly means the 1950s was a stellar time that we should definitely revert back to!

That wasn't even their argument though?

Silly me, I forgot that art has no intrinsic meaning to it, and that ND posting a painting of a stereotypical 1950s white family where the men are emphasized the most in response to a post calling America hell to say that it wasn't hell in the 1950s has no underlying meanings whatsoever! The only "implication" was that Americans were happy at that time.

[Novus America]

Progress is subjective. What is progress to some is regression to others.

Well, no. Something cannot be simultaneously progressive and regressive. It’s based on an absolute standard, the way things were in the past. The value of such things is relative, but their nature is not.

And is absolutely not inevitable.

History would disagree.

If you want what you believe to be progress to happen you or someone else has to make.
Or it will not.

Yes. My point is that someone, eventually, will make it happen. It is just human nature.

There is no absolutely single standard of progress.

So progress for me might not be progress for you.

And just because many things are better now than they were before (but other things not always so) does not make progress inevitable.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

That wasn't even their argument though?

Silly me, I forgot that art has no intrinsic meaning to it, and that ND posting a painting of a stereotypical 1950s white family where the men are emphasized the most in response to a post calling America hell to say that it wasn't hell in the 1950s has no underlying meanings whatsoever! The only "implication" was that Americans were happy at that time.

Were you always such obnoxious asshole.

[Hanafuridake]

During my adolescence there were times where I had been depressed and desired to not exist. The state of non-existence is totally devoid of pain or pleasure, hence it disputes the idea that we merely crave things which bring us pleasure.

And do you still wish that you would not exist?

No, those desires gradually disappeared and I learned to take each day at a time.

[Kowani]

Laughs in lack of Civil Rights, education, mass poverty, economic and political disenfranchisement, lynchings, and discrimination.

Are you taking about the 1850s?

Civil rights made huge advances in the 1950s. Brown was 1954.

Reminder that the Little Rock 9 didn’t happen for another 3 years. Civil Rights Act doesn’t get passed until ‘64. Voting Rights Act, ‘65. De facto segregation? Please.

They did have access to education. Not always equal and perfect education.
Though they still do not.

Shitty education is an improvement in the way being punched is better than being whipped.

Lynchings were not common. Many were not poor or saw their material conditions massively improve.[/quote] 40% poverty rate. :^)

The 1950s were not some perfect utopia. But neither were they all bad for women and minorities.

They were…pretty bad.

[Novus America]

And this is an argument that the 50’s was a good decade because…?

Because white men prospered at everyone else's expense, duh. Did you not see the wholesome, totally-not-propaganda-in-any-way-whatsoever-that-whitewashes-the-1950s painting of a happy, healthy white nuclear family living a good life in the 1950s that emphasized the white men by putting them at the forefront of the piece? That clearly means the 1950s was a stellar time that we should definitely revert back to!

Except that is clearly not the case, as things improved for women and minorities too.
It is not always a zero sum game.

Sure things were not always good for women and minorities in the 1950s and they had some disadvantages, it was still a time of great progress for them as well.

[Bienenhalde]

As I have said before, I think that the Renaissance was a mistake as it lead to a distorted philosophy of "humanism" which led to the erosion of Christian morals, the rise of imperialism, and the idolization of whites as superior to other people.

[Northern Davincia]

That wasn't even their argument though?

Silly me, I forgot that art has no intrinsic meaning to it, and that ND posting a painting of a stereotypical 1950s white family where the men are emphasized the most in response to a post calling America hell to say that it wasn't hell in the 1950s has no underlying meanings whatsoever! The only "implication" was that Americans were happy at that time.

Stronger family units, stronger faith, and firm patriotism are good for society. Heck, happiness nowadays is dropping rapidly.

[Torrocca]

Because white men prospered at everyone else's expense, duh. Did you not see the wholesome, totally-not-propaganda-in-any-way-whatsoever-that-whitewashes-the-1950s painting of a happy, healthy white nuclear family living a good life in the 1950s that emphasized the white men by putting them at the forefront of the piece? That clearly means the 1950s was a stellar time that we should definitely revert back to!

Except that is clearly not the case, as things improved for women and minorities too.
It is not always a zero sum game.

Sure things were not always good for women and minorities in the 1950s and they had some disadvantages, it was still a time of great progress for them as well.

Are you kidding me? The 1950s were utter dogshit for minorities and women, even if things were improving. It wasn't just "not always good". "Not always good" is what you say about a minor inconvenience, not about a turbulent time when entire sections of society were literally fighting almost tooth and nail to have equal rights.