Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

Wait I didn't know there was any plans of annexing Central America. I mean, the Dominican Republic makes sense (it was under US protectorate for a while), and iirc there were talks of "asking" Spain to give the US Cuba before the Civil War (and probably some plans of integration even during the Cuban Revolution) but Central America?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William ... filibuster)
An American actually took over Nicaragua without much US support.
Slavery was the issue though. While the South was very much in favor of taking it the Northerners opposes the expansion of slavery.
So racism (in the form of slavery) was the big problem.

Which reminds me of Cuba as well

[Nea Byzantia]

Wait I didn't know there was any plans of annexing Central America. I mean, the Dominican Republic makes sense (it was under US protectorate for a while), and iirc there were talks of "asking" Spain to give the US Cuba before the Civil War (and probably some plans of integration even during the Cuban Revolution) but Central America?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William ... filibuster)
An American actually took over Nicaragua without much US support.
Slavery was the issue though. While the South was very much in favor of taking it the Northerners opposes the expansion of slavery.
So racism (in the form of slavery) was the big problem.

Really? Interesting. I didn't know that, actually. Not surprised, though.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

You do realize that I'm just being meme-y, right?

Are you saying that you don't see America as the stepping stone for your new Mohist monistic world?

I mean, it really depends on if I’ve been taking my meds regularly, if I’m to be completely honest.

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William ... filibuster)
An American actually took over Nicaragua without much US support.
Slavery was the issue though. While the South was very much in favor of taking it the Northerners opposes the expansion of slavery.
So racism (in the form of slavery) was the big problem.

Really? Interesting. I didn't know that, actually. Not surprised, though.

Neither am I. It only shows that there was a lot of controversy over that stuff.

Which reminds me of Liberia in Africa where freed slaves would go to, and then form their own country.

[Nea Byzantia]

Are you saying that you don't see America as the stepping stone for your new Mohist monistic world?

I mean, it really depends on if I’ve been taking my meds regularly, if I’m to be completely honest.

Uncle Sam be like:"We need to conquer the World...SO I CAN GET MY MEDS, AND MY BIGMACS AND MY TWINKIES AND MY..."

*dies of heart failure.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I mean, it really depends on if I’ve been taking my meds regularly, if I’m to be completely honest.

Uncle Sam be like:"We need to conquer the World...SO I CAN GET MY MEDS, AND MY BIGMACS AND MY TWINKIES AND MY..."

*dies of heart failure.

My meds aren’t for a physical ailment, but rather for ailments of a mental nature.

[Novus America]

Well they were split on it. There was a substantial pro annexation movement that we failed to cultivate and support.

But yes, they choose independence despite it turning them from amongst the wealthiest countries in Asia to one of the poor ones.

Because the Fillippino revolutionaries did not like our presence at all when we came in after the Spanish were kicked out. And that's interesting there was a pro-annexation movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progresista_Party
Actually there was a major annexationist party which did well while it was supported by Taft when he was governor. But his successors failed to back it and it fell apart.

While small, there are annexationist movements that have remained even to this day
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rapple ... annexation

[Valrifell]

Any succession chart that doesn't recognize the legitimacy of Charlemagne as Roman Emperor is just wrong

Charlamains "Holy Roman Empire" was neither Holy or Roman, in fact, it wasn't much of an empire either. The last of the Roman empires holdouts fell with Constantinople, all others who lay claim to it are Liars hoping to either gain legitimacy through the prestige of a better nation or bolster their hubris as they lay claim to a legacy that was never theirs to claim.

Can I just state before going on that Voltaire's original quote was "neither Holy nor Roman" and mentioned nothing about its status of being an Imperial title. In fact, it's pretty dumb to characterize the HRE as anything bur an Empire. It was a sprawling, multicultural state with an Emperor at it's head. It's decentralized nature doesn't factor into the definition of an Empire.

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

Because the Fillippino revolutionaries did not like our presence at all when we came in after the Spanish were kicked out. And that's interesting there was a pro-annexation movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progresista_Party
Actually there was a major annexationist party which did well while it was supported by Taft when he was governor. But his successors failed to back it and it fell apart.

While small, there are annexationist movements that have remained even to this day
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rapple ... annexation

Oh you know what, now that I remember, there was in fact, some Filipinos that fought against the revolutionaries during the Philippine-American War.

[Novus America]

Really? Interesting. I didn't know that, actually. Not surprised, though.

Neither am I. It only shows that there was a lot of controversy over that stuff.

Which reminds me of Liberia in Africa where freed slaves would go to, and then form their own country.

There was a lot of controversy over it. Had it not been for slavery and racism the controversy very well could have ended with a different result though.

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

Neither am I. It only shows that there was a lot of controversy over that stuff.

Which reminds me of Liberia in Africa where freed slaves would go to, and then form their own country.

There was a lot of controversy over it. Had it not been for slavery and racism the controversy very well could have ended with a different result though.

It definitely could've helped those countries out big time. The only problem was the unjust treatment of weaker nations and minorities which is why those nations wanted independence in the first place.

[Novus America]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexat ... to_Domingo
Grant tried to Annex the Dominican Republic but it was defeated in the Senate 28 to 28.
Racism again was much of it.

[Totally Not OEP]

I agree. Reality has a pro-American bias.

Shameful that the only reason we didn't annex Mexico is because of racism.

Wasn't even racism; it came down to Calhoun and his faction opposing it on Pro-Slavery grounds, due to concerns the States would become Free instead of Slave when admitted. Oddly enough with that stated, however, "All Mexico" was the one time you united Jefferson Davis and New England Abolitionists on an issue, as "All Mexico was popular in the Trans-Mississippi South and throughout the North.

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Santo_Domingo
Grant tried to Annex the Dominican Republic but it was defeated in the Senate 28 to 28.
Racism again was much of it.

Also, didn't FDR himself not want us in those countries in the first place?

[Novus America]

There was a lot of controversy over it. Had it not been for slavery and racism the controversy very well could have ended with a different result though.

It definitely could've helped those countries out big time. The only problem was the unjust treatment of weaker nations and minorities which is why those nations wanted independence in the first place.

Exactly. Unfortunately racism was the big issue.
Idiotic ethno nationalists put WASP supremacy crap over what was best for the US.

[Nea Byzantia]

There was a lot of controversy over it. Had it not been for slavery and racism the controversy very well could have ended with a different result though.

It definitely could've helped those countries out big time. The only problem was the unjust treatment of weaker nations and minorities which is why those nations wanted independence in the first place.

That's low-key the reason everybody these days hates America. They're just the Top Dog (for now); so everybody hates them. And so you have a lot of people flocking to the rival Powers (Russia and China) because they're tired of the Americans.

It was the same with the Assyrians; everybody flocked to the Chaldeans/Babylonians

It was the same with the Babylonians; everybody flocked to the Persians

It was the same with the Persians; everybody flocked to the Greeks (Alexander the Great)

It was the same with the Greeks; everybody flocked to the Romans

And then with the Romans it just gets really confusing...so the whole system falls apart; but I suspect you get my point.

[North German Realm]

Panama and Nicaragua were both under American control for a while. Perhaps it was a consideration.

I see your bid and I raise you this:

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

It definitely could've helped those countries out big time. The only problem was the unjust treatment of weaker nations and minorities which is why those nations wanted independence in the first place.

Exactly. Unfortunately racism was the big issue.
Idiotic ethno nationalists put WASP supremacy crap over what was best for the US.

Yep.

Heck, even the British were excellent with some of their colonies, especially India after company rule. In some instances, they helped keep the peace between the Hindus and Muslims, allowing them to practice their individual faiths. Now that they're gone, Pakistan and India are just at each other, and some minorities are oppressed in both countries. As is the case for Ahmadiyya in Pakistan.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Jesus fuckin' Christ, it's like you have no idea what you're talking about. Of fucking course a well-developed defensive system is going to see a kill ratio in favor of the defenders regardless of who the fuck's running it. You don't need to be a fucking military genius or an elite 720-no-scope professional soldier to accurately fire an AT gun at a tank or a machine gun at infantry trying to cross a deliberately-flooded plain and a river.

As I said, and others likewise pointed out, if old men and boys could construct defenses sufficient to stop a fully mechanized Soviet offensive, complete with tanks, air superiority, better logistics and overwhelming numbers, that's downright embarrassing. Whether or not the Germans were in a defensive system is irrelevant to the fact that said defensive system was made by complete amateurs, who then managed to inflict a serious battle upon professionals. If the RKKA is the Ubermensch you seem convinced they are, this shouldn't have happened.

TIL that the fortifications Germany built were enough to stop the Soviets

[AhmadiMuslim1889]

It definitely could've helped those countries out big time. The only problem was the unjust treatment of weaker nations and minorities which is why those nations wanted independence in the first place.

That's low-key the reason everybody these days hates America. They're just the Top Dog (for now); so everybody hates them. And so you have a lot of people flocking to the rival Powers (Russia and China) because they're tired of the Americans.

It was the same with the Assyrians; everybody flocked to the Chaldeans/Babylonians

It was the same with the Babylonians; everybody flocked to the Persians

It was the same with the Persians; everybody flocked to the Greeks (Alexander the Great)

It was the same with the Greeks; everybody flocked to the Romans

And then with the Romans it just gets really confusing...so the whole system falls apart; but I suspect you get my point.

Exactly. I agree with all that you said.

And hence, the enemy themselves take advantage of this by enemy countries, only to themselves become the oppressors.

[Totally Not OEP]

As I said, and others likewise pointed out, if old men and boys could construct defenses sufficient to stop a fully mechanized Soviet offensive, complete with tanks, air superiority, better logistics and overwhelming numbers, that's downright embarrassing. Whether or not the Germans were in a defensive system is irrelevant to the fact that said defensive system was made by complete amateurs, who then managed to inflict a serious battle upon professionals. If the RKKA is the Ubermensch you seem convinced they are, this shouldn't have happened.

TIL that the fortifications Germany built were enough to stop the Soviets

The only way you got that is if you didn't read what was posted.

[Nea Byzantia]

That's low-key the reason everybody these days hates America. They're just the Top Dog (for now); so everybody hates them. And so you have a lot of people flocking to the rival Powers (Russia and China) because they're tired of the Americans.

It was the same with the Assyrians; everybody flocked to the Chaldeans/Babylonians

It was the same with the Babylonians; everybody flocked to the Persians

It was the same with the Persians; everybody flocked to the Greeks (Alexander the Great)

It was the same with the Greeks; everybody flocked to the Romans

And then with the Romans it just gets really confusing...so the whole system falls apart; but I suspect you get my point.

Exactly. I agree with all that you said.

And hence, the enemy themselves take advantage of this by enemy countries, only to themselves become the oppressors.

That's right. And I think we're definitely seeing a Power Shift back towards Eurasia; and like most declining Powers, America is desperately trying to hold on to its power by the edge of its fingers. Hence its aggressive and increasingly arrogant policies. Its a collapsing empire doubling down on its illusion of power.

[Novus America]

Shameful that the only reason we didn't annex Mexico is because of racism.

Wasn't even racism; it came down to Calhoun and his faction opposing it on Pro-Slavery grounds, due to concerns the States would become Free instead of Slave when admitted. Oddly enough with that stated, however, "All Mexico" was the one time you united Jefferson Davis and New England Abolitionists on an issue, as "All Mexico was popular in the Trans-Mississippi South and throughout the North.

Had it not been for a racist institution (slavery) there would have been less opposition to it.

Also John C. Calhoun actually opposed it on openly racist grounds as well
“We have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race—the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind, of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race.... We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged ... that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake.”

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I see your bid and I raise you this:

Not enough, m8. First the Americas, then the World!

[Baltenstein]

Because the entire southern half the Continent isn't American.

Interestingly enough, those people would completely disagree with you. They dont even agree with the fact we even call ourselves "America" in the first place.

For all intents and purposes, "gringo" is the only appropriate term for US citizens south of the border.