Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Good thing I didn't say "tengently connected". I said the CSA military and government should've been executed for treason.

How are Germany and India illegitimate?

Yet again you're downplaying. America doesn't have to enslave first to have slaves.

You really need to stop shilling for the CSA.

America had slaves, but there is nothing wrong with that per se. The wrong was in.the abuse and in the racial justification for it.

Point made

No I don't think all masters were abusive.

Never said "all".

Jefferson Davis was a good man

No he effing wasn't. This is just effed up to say right here, Jiminy.

who was pretty halal with his slaves.

Prove it.

And George Washington Carver's masters legally adopted him after slavery was abolished.

They also castrated him when he was a child.

[Fahran]

It did at that but it was on Southern soil.

The CSA was an illegitment state like Israel, Germany, and India.

That's the hottest of takes.

[Salus Maior]

America had slaves, but there is nothing wrong with that per se. The wrong was in.the abuse and in the racial justification for it.

Point made

[Hanafuridake]

What's he supposed to be resentful about? Their sideburns?

I do concur that I tend towards... radical altruism and/or collectivism in some regards, hence why I find Shijima to be the best Reason in Nocturne. Sadly, it is unlikely that a Shijima-style world will ever come to pass in RL.

Haven't gotten to the point where you side with a Reason yet, but I'm probably going to side with the Musubi Reason. A world of total creativity and solitude. Ironically something that is probably a lot of libertarians' ideal.

[Husseinarti]

Well then they shouldn't've "let them go home". They should've said "those soldiers, generals and every facet of the CSA government will be killed for treason". The CSA was treated too softly when they were defeated.

They were treated with lenience and mercy largely because offering generous terms and accepting Lee's surrender was more conducive to Lincoln's overarching policy goals than waging a brutal war of extermination across the South to kill everyone even tangentially connected to the Confederacy. Lee himself began pressing for a peaceful resolution immediately following his surrender and did not deviate from that course even as indignities and punitive measures were heaped on him. It got a lot of people to put their weapons down.

Kill a traitor before you kill the enemy, Jimbo.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

America had slaves, but there is nothing wrong with that per se. The wrong was in.the abuse and in the racial justification for it.

Point made

No I don't think all masters were abusive.

Never said "all".

Jefferson Davis was a good man

No he effing wasn't. This is just effed up to say right here, Jiminy.

who was pretty halal with his slaves.

Prove it.

And George Washington Carver's masters legally adopted him after slavery was abolished.

They also castrated him when he was a child.

Davis did not allow any of his slaves to be whipped without approval of the other slaves and only by slaves, believing freemen overseeing this were likelier to be sadistic.

Carver was not castrated, that belief was presumed because of his unusually high voice and mannerisms, but it is extremely unlikely.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

Point made

Doesn't Christianity also condone slavery if not cruel?

[Salus Maior]

Doesn't Christianity also condone slavery if not cruel?

I imagine you could make the argument that it does, so long as the slaves are treated as equals to the master (but then again, quacks make interpretations from the Bible all the time to justify almost anything).

But there's certainly no protections for slavery either, and considering it is a practice of exploitation with a long history of horrible abuse I'm going to side with such figures as Saint Patrick and say that it should be banned entirely.

[Fahran]

Kill a traitor before you kill the enemy, Jimbo.

If it had been a small-scale rebellion or if the Union had gained a total victory, akin to the situation with ISIL, executing those involved might have been a plausible if extremely bloody policy decision. But, again, Lincoln knew what his objective was and how to achieve it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Point made

Never said "all".

No he effing wasn't. This is just effed up to say right here, Jiminy.

Prove it.

They also castrated him when he was a child.

Davis did not allow any of his slaves to be whipped without approval of the other slaves and only by slaves, believing freemen overseeing this were likelier to be sadistic.

Prove it.

Carver was not castrated, that belief was presumed because of his unusually high voice and mannerisms, but it is extremely unlikely.

Actually it's disputed.

Are you defending these slave-owners or are you just trying to explain history?

[Germanyt]

Rite

[Hanafuridake]

Davis did not allow any of his slaves to be whipped without approval of the other slaves and only by slaves, believing freemen overseeing this were likelier to be sadistic.

Prove it.

Carver was not castrated, that belief was presumed because of his unusually high voice and mannerisms, but it is extremely unlikely.

Actually it's disputed.

Are you defending these slave-owners or are you just trying to explain history?

It's kind of amusing that you now see how evil slavery is when your people are the ones being enslaved. Have you considered that's how non-Muslims feel when you try to explain to us that actually, Islamic slavery isn't bad?

[Frostnia]

Doesn't Christianity also condone slavery if not cruel?

I imagine you could make the argument that it does, so long as the slaves are treated as equals to the master (but then again, quacks make interpretations from the Bible all the time to justify almost anything).

But there's certainly no protections for slavery either, and considering it is a practice of exploitation with a long history of horrible abuse I'm going to side with such figures as Saint Patrick and say that it should be banned entirely.

Wasn't part of the Bible written with the mind to regulate slavery?

[Northern Davincia]

I imagine you could make the argument that it does, so long as the slaves are treated as equals to the master (but then again, quacks make interpretations from the Bible all the time to justify almost anything).

But there's certainly no protections for slavery either, and considering it is a practice of exploitation with a long history of horrible abuse I'm going to side with such figures as Saint Patrick and say that it should be banned entirely.

Wasn't part of the Bible written with the mind to regulate slavery?

Slaves do have a handful of protections under biblical authority.

[Salus Maior]

I imagine you could make the argument that it does, so long as the slaves are treated as equals to the master (but then again, quacks make interpretations from the Bible all the time to justify almost anything).

But there's certainly no protections for slavery either, and considering it is a practice of exploitation with a long history of horrible abuse I'm going to side with such figures as Saint Patrick and say that it should be banned entirely.

Wasn't part of the Bible written with the mind to regulate slavery?

In the Old Testament in Levitical Law there are regulations for slavery, but Christians don't really follow Levitical Law.

[The South Falls]

Taking the bible literally is merely a source of conflict waiting to happen.

[Thermodolia]

The order to withdraw was illegitimate, the fort belonged to the federal government. If they wish to use force, they should expect force in retaliation.

It did at that but it was on Southern soil.

There’s no such thing

[Ulrich Schmid]

Wasn't part of the Bible written with the mind to regulate slavery?

To an extent. It's moreso indentured servitude than slavery, although even then the Bible implies that its morally troublesome. People who protected runaway slaves were under no obligation whatsoever to return them to their owners.

[Genivaria]

The United States military does not take orders from terrorists, deserters, and traitors.

Yet they extoll the terrorist John Brown in the Battle Hymn of the Republic and revere Thomas Paine who propagates treason amd argued that government based on ancestral agreement commands no loyalty if the contemporaries reject it.

Because he was fighting for liberty and the abolition of slavery.

[Bienenhalde]

The CSA was an illegitment state like Israel, Germany, and India.

Illegal maybe, but illigimate, as contrasted with Israel, which is legal but illegitimate.

So band off treasonous slavers rebelling against their legitimate country is okay, but it is somehow wrong for the Jewish people to demand independence and self-determination?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Illegal maybe, but illigimate, as contrasted with Israel, which is legal but illegitimate.

So band off treasonous slavers rebelling against their legitimate country is okay, but it is somehow wrong for the Jewish people to demand independence and self-determination?

On someone else's land, yes.

Yes I know that Jews have an ancestral lineage to FalasTeen as well, doesn't warrant invasion, occupation and subjugation against people who also have that ancestral lineage.

[Novus America]

No it was on American soil, there had never been any nation in the American south unless we're talking about Mexico and frankly Manifest Destiny didn't go far enough there.

American theory of legitimacy was that law and rule is only binding where the contemporary people support it.

And the South did not let its black population vote.

Many poor also were stopped from voting.
The votes for independence were not even remotely free or fair, even by the standards of the time.
Thus the South had zero popular legitimacy.

In Mississippi and South Carolina slaves made up the majority of the population.
You cannot claim popular sovereignty and enslave the majority of your population.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Yet they extoll the terrorist John Brown in the Battle Hymn of the Republic and revere Thomas Paine who propagates treason amd argued that government based on ancestral agreement commands no loyalty if the contemporaries reject it.

John Brown did almost nothing wrong except that he didn’t win.

[Of Leben]

Yet they extoll the terrorist John Brown in the Battle Hymn of the Republic and revere Thomas Paine who propagates treason amd argued that government based on ancestral agreement commands no loyalty if the contemporaries reject it.

John Brown did almost nothing wrong except that he didn’t win.

John Brown wans't popular in his time. Neither was Thomas Paine. Their ideas gained popularity and now we see them in a different light- but I doubt most average people remember John Brown or Thomas Paine.

[Salus Maior]

Thought from Salus: Medieval artistry doesn't get enough credit.