Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

This is why Old Tyrannia has the Mandate of Heaven and why the false dynasty of Fahran will be overthrown in the next thread.

The squirearchy are the Anglo-Saxon equivalent of the Confucian scholar-official class and the natural rulers of the United Kingdom, prove me wrong.

Hot Take: The United States needs to replace the executive branch with a hierarchy of virtuous scholar-officials.

[Dresderstan]

Stop with this Mandate of Heaven stuff. It sounds like a cult and is illogical.

Newsflash: no.

You mean, fun fact: no.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

[Old Tyrannia]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

I'm assuming that this is what Fahran means by it. Personally I'd like to know how "cultural religion" is being defined here.

Stop with this Mandate of Heaven stuff. It sounds like a cult and is illogical.

Hot Take: The Chinese Mandate of Heaven is one of the best examples of the Platonic conception of the "noble lie" in practice.

Even Hotter Take: The Mandate of Heaven is flawed in that it permits the overthrow of monarchs that are perceived as having "lost" it, thus providing an incentive and justification for insurrection; therefore, the European and Japanese concepts of the monarch's irrevocable divine right to rule are superior. Hana, back me up on this.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

North Korea is an atheist state with a cult revolving around their ruling family but it has popular Korean religions despite there being no religious freedom. What would they be?

[Fahran]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

Caesaro-Papism "is the idea of combining the power of secular government with the religious power, or of making secular authority superior to the spiritual authority of the Church; especially concerning the connection of the Church with government." Confessionalism is "a system of government that is a de jure mix of religion and politics. It typically entails distributing political and institutional power proportionally among confessional communities." Thank you, Wikipedia, for the definitions. Examples of the former include the Eastern Roman Empire and the Russian Empire - I believe. Examples of the latter include modern Lebanon and the Ottoman Empire.

I'm assuming that this is what Fahran means by it. Personally I'd like to know how "cultural religion" is being defined here.

Cultural Religion in my view would be tantamount to what was advocated by Michel Aflaq, the Father of Baathism. Aflaq, a Christian, called on all Arabs, regardless of religion, to worship Islam as a cultural expression and ethos of the Arab national spirit.

[Hanafuridake]

Newsflash: no.

You mean, fun fact: no.

Well, we were having fun. But then GLB has some weird hatred for people belonging to non-Western belief systems and seems to believe that making grandstanding ultimatums is somehow going to convince me to abandon them.

[Nea Byzantia]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

I'm assuming that this is what Fahran means by it. Personally I'd like to know how "cultural religion" is being defined here.

I thought he meant a Confessional State...as in a State with an explicit State Religion

[The Feylands]

Hmmm... Of these... I suppose "Caesaro-Papism" would be closest to my actual beliefs. What I have in mind is probably closest to something akin to the system they have in contemporary China (without the State Atheism... not saying the CCP:s policies mustn't be understood in their proper context of course - China has a real problem with superstition). The State regulating the religious sphere in cooperation with beneficial religious leaders and the civil society. A holist foundation - but people can still follow and gods or teachers, with the state intervene to save the vulnerable from subversive cults like Scientology, Falun Gong, Prosperity gospel etc.

Ancestor worship reverence should be seen in a favourable way, too.

[Nea Byzantia]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

Caesaro-Papism "is the idea of combining the power of secular government with the religious power, or of making secular authority superior to the spiritual authority of the Church; especially concerning the connection of the Church with government." Confessionalism is "a system of government that is a de jure mix of religion and politics. It typically entails distributing political and institutional power proportionally among confessional communities." Thank you, Wikipedia, for the definitions. Examples of the former include the Eastern Roman Empire and the Russian Empire - I believe. Examples of the latter include modern Lebanon and the Ottoman Empire.

I thought Byzantium and Russia were Confessionalist...the Caesaro-Papist thing is a Western misconception.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Well, we were having fun. But then GLD has some weird hatred for people belonging to non-Western belief systems.

People=/=religions

[Bienenhalde]

Apparently I was the first person to vote for confessionalism on the poll.

[Nea Byzantia]

Apparently I was the first person to vote for confessionalism on the poll.

I switched back and forth between Caesaropapism and Confessionalism...I'm somewhere between the two, personally.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Is Laïcité just secularism leaning closer to state atheism than normal secularism?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Can someone explain to me the difference between theocracy and caesaropapism? Because the only difference I see is that caesaropapism lets kufr somewhat prevail over religion, but even that isn't always true.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Poll question:
What's Confessionalism?

Caesaro-Papism "is the idea of combining the power of secular government with the religious power, or of making secular authority superior to the spiritual authority of the Church; especially concerning the connection of the Church with government." Confessionalism is "a system of government that is a de jure mix of religion and politics. It typically entails distributing political and institutional power proportionally among confessional communities." Thank you, Wikipedia, for the definitions. Examples of the former include the Eastern Roman Empire and the Russian Empire - I believe. Examples of the latter include modern Lebanon and the Ottoman Empire.

I'm assuming that this is what Fahran means by it. Personally I'd like to know how "cultural religion" is being defined here.

Cultural Religion in my view would be tantamount to what was advocated by Michel Aflaq, the Father of Baathism. Aflaq, a Christian, called on all Arabs, regardless of religion, to worship Islam as a cultural expression and ethos of the Arab national spirit.

I suppose that cultural religion is closest to my perspective? Albeit, I'm thinking of something more akin to the American "national mythos/civic religion"...

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Is Laïcité just secularism leaning closer to state atheism than normal secularism?

I presume as such.

[Fahran]

I suppose that cultural religion is closest to my perspective? Albeit, I'm thinking of something more akin to the American "national mythos/civic religion"...

That's about where I land as well oddly enough.

Is Laïcité just secularism leaning closer to state atheism than normal secularism?

Think Revolutionary France or Revolutionary Mexico.

The Cristeros did absolutely nothing wrong.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Can someone explain to me the difference between theocracy and caesaropapism?

They are both different forms of bad, but the church and state reverse roles if I’m understanding correctly.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Is Laïcité just secularism leaning closer to state atheism than normal secularism?

Yep

[Hanafuridake]

This thread poll is way too Eurocentric (it needs to check its privilege ) but I'm probably some sort of Caesaro-Papist because I believe that the monarch has a divine mandate which is embodied in his person and that he should be considered the head of the Buddhist religion in his country, because he is an emanation of Mahāvairocana.

Although cultural religion might be more accurate because people shouldn't be forced to practice a religion or participate in religious rituals.

[Nea Byzantia]

Can someone explain to me the difference between theocracy and caesaropapism? Because the only difference I see is that caesaropapism lets kufr somewhat prevail over religion, but even that isn't always true.

Theocracy: Religion has Power over the State

Caesaropapism: The State has Power over the Religion

But both have Religion tightly tied in with the State.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

This thread poll is way too Eurocentric (it needs to check its privilege ) but I'm probably some sort of Caesaro-Papist because I believe that the monarch has a divine mandate which is embodied in his person and that he should be considered the head of the Buddhist religion in his country, because he is an emanation of Mahāvairocana.

This site has a lot of people from the West, deal with it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Can someone explain to me the difference between theocracy and caesaropapism? Because the only difference I see is that caesaropapism lets kufr somewhat prevail over religion, but even that isn't always true.

Theocracy: Religion has Power over the State

Caesaropapism: The State has Power over the Religion

But both have Religion tightly tied in with the State.

So in caesaropapism does the state interpret the religion?

[Nea Byzantia]

Theocracy: Religion has Power over the State

Caesaropapism: The State has Power over the Religion

But both have Religion tightly tied in with the State.

So in caesaropapism does the state interpret the religion?

The Ruler is seen as the Protector of the Religion in that Nation.