Nazi Germany vs Modern Poland

[Infected Mushroom]

yeah, then I guess it becomes some crazy no man's land

So you're saying in this scenario that Poland will have neither the western, nor the eastern territories?

What about Gdansk/Danzig then? It's a part of modern Poland, but back in 1939 it was actually it's own semi-autonomous city-state (with a lot of Nazi sympathisers to boot).

Regardless, gotta say, things are not looking too good for Poland. It's a lot of land, millions of modern Polish people and several modern military bases that it is being deprived of, with no compensation from the east either.

Aye

If there’s discrepancy, it starts as German held or otherwise not Polish.

Still, it seems a lot of posters think Poland will still win

[The Huskar Social Union]

So you're saying in this scenario that Poland will have neither the western, nor the eastern territories?

What about Gdansk/Danzig then? It's a part of modern Poland, but back in 1939 it was actually it's own semi-autonomous city-state (with a lot of Nazi sympathisers to boot).

Regardless, gotta say, things are not looking too good for Poland. It's a lot of land, millions of modern Polish people and several modern military bases that it is being deprived of, with no compensation from the east either.

Aye

If there’s discrepancy, it starts as German held or otherwise not Polish.

Still, it seems a lot of posters think Poland will still win

You have altered the scenario so poland would be at a disadvantage. ANd yes they would still win as the Polish army would sweep through those territories with opposition due to their vastly superior technology and capabilities.

[Senkaku]

The Poles would be using Leopard 2s, PT-91s, and T-72s against Panzer 1s and T-26s, and F-16s, MiG-29s, and Su-22s against Stukas and Me 109s and whatever crap the Soviets had. They'd be in Berlin for brunch and Moscow by midnight. And I imagine their current submarines alone would be enough to wipe out most of the German and Soviet navies at the time, the only question would be when they ran out of torpedoes.

[Vassenor]

The Poles would be using Leopard 2s, PT-91s, and T-72s against Panzer 1s and T-26s, and F-16s, MiG-29s, and Su-22s against Stukas and Me 109s and whatever crap the Soviets had. They'd be in Berlin for brunch and Moscow by midnight. And I imagine their current submarines alone would be enough to wipe out most of the German and Soviet navies at the time, the only question would be when they ran out of torpedoes.

Except that because reasons they now have no naval bases for the fleet.

[Senkaku]

The Poles would be using Leopard 2s, PT-91s, and T-72s against Panzer 1s and T-26s, and F-16s, MiG-29s, and Su-22s against Stukas and Me 109s and whatever crap the Soviets had. They'd be in Berlin for brunch and Moscow by midnight. And I imagine their current submarines alone would be enough to wipe out most of the German and Soviet navies at the time, the only question would be when they ran out of torpedoes.

Except that because reasons they now have no naval bases for the fleet.

I expect that would change within a few hours as German forces along the Baltic coast were systematically obliterated by Poland's land and air units. And even operating without a home port, modern diesel electric subs have pretty considerable endurance and torpedo loads, especially compared to old-style subs.

Also: nobody really had assault rifles back then. Every Polish infantryman with an AK-47 would have a huge firepower superiority, to say nothing of their Grad rockets and those mobile anti-aircraft quad turret thingies... I would not want to be a Stuka pilot facing one of those bois down

[Bear Stearns]

WHAT ABOUT NAZI GERMANY VS. NEOLITHIC FARMERS

[Vetalia]

WHAT ABOUT NAZI GERMANY VS. NEOLITHIC FARMERS

Ever lose a tank against a speaman in Civ?

[Nocturnalis]

>no polish naval bases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdynia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel,_Poland

[Yusseria]

Poland wins... pretty easily. Modern technology wipes the floor with WW2-era technology. What the fuck's a Panzer II gonna do against a PT-91?

[Risottia]

Poland of 2019 would probably single handedly win World War 2 in Europe in 1939.

Polish Leopard 2s, PT-91s and T-72s would eat German Panzer IIs and Panzer IIIs for lunch.
Polish F-16s and MiG-29s would absolutely wipe for the floor with the entire Luftwaffe.
Poland’s two Oliver Hazard Perry frigates alone could probably sink the entire German surface fleet with one hand tied behind their back, and Polish subs would silently Sam Fisher every last U-boat before they even knew what hit them.

With what fuel?

[Infected Mushroom]

Poland of 2019 would probably single handedly win World War 2 in Europe in 1939.

Polish Leopard 2s, PT-91s and T-72s would eat German Panzer IIs and Panzer IIIs for lunch.
Polish F-16s and MiG-29s would absolutely wipe for the floor with the entire Luftwaffe.
Poland’s two Oliver Hazard Perry frigates alone could probably sink the entire German surface fleet with one hand tied behind their back, and Polish subs would silently Sam Fisher every last U-boat before they even knew what hit them.

With what fuel?

Good point

[Senkaku]

Poland of 2019 would probably single handedly win World War 2 in Europe in 1939.

Polish Leopard 2s, PT-91s and T-72s would eat German Panzer IIs and Panzer IIIs for lunch.
Polish F-16s and MiG-29s would absolutely wipe for the floor with the entire Luftwaffe.
Poland’s two Oliver Hazard Perry frigates alone could probably sink the entire German surface fleet with one hand tied behind their back, and Polish subs would silently Sam Fisher every last U-boat before they even knew what hit them.

With what fuel?

The fuel they're carrying would probably be enough for the ships, tbh. An Oliver Hazard Perry has a range of like 4,500 nmi, and Poland's diesel-electric subs have good range too- they'd really only need to make one very short sortie and it'd be curtains for the Kriegsmarine.

As for their tanks and planes- the scenario in the OP says "Poland isn't 1939 Poland... its suddenly replaced magically by 2019 Poland with 2019 Polish military forces, technology, economic production and so forth with the 2019 Polish population." Which would suggest that Polish military fuel stockpiles still exist, soooo...

[Infected Mushroom]

With what fuel?

The fuel they're carrying would probably be enough for the ships, tbh. An Oliver Hazard Perry has a range of like 4,500 nmi, and Poland's diesel-electric subs have good range too- they'd really only need to make one very short sortie and it'd be curtains for the Kriegsmarine.

As for their tanks and planes- the scenario in the OP says "Poland isn't 1939 Poland... its suddenly replaced magically by 2019 Poland with 2019 Polish military forces, technology, economic production and so forth with the 2019 Polish population." Which would suggest that Polish military fuel stockpiles still exist, soooo...

Yes

But how much stockpile do they have irl? Just wondering

What’s their combat readiness in 2019?

[Petrolheadia]

The fuel they're carrying would probably be enough for the ships, tbh. An Oliver Hazard Perry has a range of like 4,500 nmi, and Poland's diesel-electric subs have good range too- they'd really only need to make one very short sortie and it'd be curtains for the Kriegsmarine.

As for their tanks and planes- the scenario in the OP says "Poland isn't 1939 Poland... its suddenly replaced magically by 2019 Poland with 2019 Polish military forces, technology, economic production and so forth with the 2019 Polish population." Which would suggest that Polish military fuel stockpiles still exist, soooo...

Yes

But how much stockpile do they have irl? Just wondering

What’s their combat readiness in 2019?

That's classified information.

Well first off the suggestion that modern day America would want Nazis to win is nonsensical. But secondly this is not Nazi Germany in 2019 it is 2019 Poland in 1939 and in 1939 the US was heavily isolationist and would not be getting involved period.

Edit: Also even if 1939 America helped Germany Poland would still wipe the floor with them.

You're right, apparently Poland went back instead of Germany going forward like I thought. But if it did those were literal neo-Nazis (along with maybe some KKK) marching so I don't think them supporting 1939 Germany is nonsensical.

TIL any country with some semblance of a neo-Nazi movement is gonna support literal Nazis.

There are even neo-Nazis in Poland. Around 600 active ones.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

This isn't even a contest.

[Sovaal]

You realize that between 1939 and today that Poland has had its borders changed yes?

[Ifreann]

You realize that between 1939 and today that Poland has had its borders changed yes?

It's come up a few times.

[Purpelia]

Honestly the question of this thread should not be if Poland can defend it self but how the rest of the world reacts to Polish forces marching over Berlin and Moscow and driving as far east as Vladivostok.

It's that much of a non context. Tanks of 1939 can literally be penetrated from beyond their weapons range by modern 40mm grenades. Their aircraft will be detected and shot down without ever knowing what hit them until their pilots start refusing to take to the sky. And their infantry uses tactics and strategy 70 years out of date.

[Petrolheadia]

Round 1: War ends in two hours as the modern Poles happily surrender and welcome the Herrenvolk that will join them against immigrants, leftists , muslims, Jews and Russians... Especially the Russians. The Sanazation Commonwealth is formed.
Round 2: Stalemate as the Poles jump at Russia, forgetting the Germans completely. The Germans capture Warsaw in four days but wonder at the complete lack of any Pole aged 3-80. In the same moment, all Poles aged 3-80 are storming through Russia towards Moscow on their modern tanks, but get stuck in Belarus because they ran out of fuel. Formation of New Poland, some 500 km east of the former, while Germany gets stoned on Polish wodka.

Meanwhile, in an Italian scenario, Italy would be completely unable due to 50% of the soldiers going on strike over improper pasta preparation, 25% deciding to support a new minority government that was immediately spawned after some people in the first one complained, 23.8% staying home to jerk off to TV porn and 8.2% being done with this and returning to their home countries.

In case some actual figting gets done, 40% of the equipment generates repair bills higher than the entire European GDP, 30% gets retired because the leftists think it's enviromentally unfriendly to use it and the remaining 30% gets declared as salvage after being shot at once.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Ludicrous to say Poland will win -- where will the oil come from to fuel all this modern equipment in either scenario?

Round 1: War ends in two hours as the modern Poles happily surrender and welcome the Herrenvolk that will join them against immigrants, leftists , muslims, Jews and Russians... Especially the Russians. The Sanazation Commonwealth is formed.
Round 2: Stalemate as the Poles jump at Russia, forgetting the Germans completely. The Germans capture Warsaw in four days but wonder at the complete lack of any Pole aged 3-80. In the same moment, all Poles aged 3-80 are storming through Russia towards Moscow on their modern tanks, but get stuck in Belarus because they ran out of fuel. Formation of New Poland, some 500 km east of the former, while Germany gets stoned on Polish wodka.

Meanwhile, in an Italian scenario, Italy would be completely unable due to 50% of the soldiers going on strike over improper pasta preparation, 25% deciding to support a new minority government that was immediately spawned after some people in the first one complained, 23.8% staying home to jerk off to TV porn and 8.2% being done with this and returning to their home countries.

In case some actual figting gets done, 40% of the equipment generates repair bills higher than the entire European GDP, 30% gets retired because the leftists think it's enviromentally unfriendly to use it and the remaining 30% gets declared as salvage after being shot at once.

Only 40% of the equipment?

You put too much faith in Italian engineering. Don't think Fiat is capable of that success rate. Then again, much of the equipment may survive, just that the tunnels they're in or bridges they're on .. might not.

[Alvecia]

This is why I always rush tech

[Andsed]

Ludicrous to say Poland will win -- where will the oil come from to fuel all this modern equipment in either scenario?

Meanwhile, in an Italian scenario, Italy would be completely unable due to 50% of the soldiers going on strike over improper pasta preparation, 25% deciding to support a new minority government that was immediately spawned after some people in the first one complained, 23.8% staying home to jerk off to TV porn and 8.2% being done with this and returning to their home countries.

In case some actual figting gets done, 40% of the equipment generates repair bills higher than the entire European GDP, 30% gets retired because the leftists think it's enviromentally unfriendly to use it and the remaining 30% gets declared as salvage after being shot at once.

Only 40% of the equipment?

You put too much faith in Italian engineering. Don't think Fiat is capable of that success rate. Then again, much of the equipment may survive, just that the tunnels they're in or bridges they're on .. might not.

You realize the Polish armed forces have fuel to operate right? The Polish millitary would annihlate a 1939 nation. Before coming anywhere near close to running out of fuel.

[Bear Stearns]

However, I'd like to think that the America of the 1940s would still be able to defeat a modern Poland.

[Purpelia]

Ludicrous to say Poland will win -- where will the oil come from to fuel all this modern equipment in either scenario?

Every army in Europe, even completely useless ones has enough fuel to have their jet fighters drop smart bombs on every command center, army HQ and government building in Germany within the first day and still have enough left over to park their untouchable landships immune to everything short of a railroad gun in the way of the German army. The rest is morale.

[Bogan Laker]

However, I'd like to think that the America of the 1940s would still be able to defeat a modern Poland.

if its 1945+ america, then yeah. just nuke them.
if not, then america is screwed.