UK citizen Jarrah Begum dies in Syrian refugee camp

[Terruana]

Ms Begum was never presented with the choice, because the government refused to consider the family's request for help because it was "the wrong department".

And why should a child be left to die just because he can't physically get to an embassy?

That isn't true. They directed the family solicitor to the correct department and told him what information would be needed to make the request. They also pointed out that there hadn't been diplomatic relations with Syria since 2011 so the British government was very limited in terms of what help could be provided.

https://twitter.com/MohammedAkunjee/sta ... 5943268353

I would still say it was a missed opportunity to help that child. If you turn up at a walk-in clinic rather than A&E, you'd still expect the staff to help you, rather than sending you back onto the street with directions to the nearest A&E

[Fartsniffage]

A small soul dies beacuse of government incompetence.

May she rest in peace.

He.

And just no.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

No. They didn't. They told them to go to a different department because they have no bloody legal authority to help them. The government as a whole never refused anything.

Because the UK has clearly stated for a decade now that if you get fucked in Syria, they can't help you. It's really not that hard. Why are you so intent on blaming the British government instead of those actually responsible for it?

So you're saying it's the baby's fault for ignoring the government advice?
I fully acknowledge that his mother is also responsible for his death, but the UK government also has blood on their hands for refusing to help.

Again: they didn't refuse to help. The Home Office told the clearly utterly incompetent solicitor that the request had been sent to the wrong department and directed him where to the proper one. They then stated that the mother's consent would be required. Your characterization of this as a "refusal" is wrong.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

That isn't true. They directed the family solicitor to the correct department and told him what information would be needed to make the request. They also pointed out that there hadn't been diplomatic relations with Syria since 2011 so the British government was very limited in terms of what help could be provided.

https://twitter.com/MohammedAkunjee/sta ... 5943268353

I would still say it was a missed opportunity to help that child. If you turn up at a walk-in clinic rather than A&E, you'd still expect the staff to help you, rather than sending you back onto the street with directions to the nearest A&E

Back at it again with the utterly incomparable situations, huh?

The Home Office has no legal authority to help them. Wtf were they supposed to do?

[Fartsniffage]

That isn't true. They directed the family solicitor to the correct department and told him what information would be needed to make the request. They also pointed out that there hadn't been diplomatic relations with Syria since 2011 so the British government was very limited in terms of what help could be provided.

https://twitter.com/MohammedAkunjee/sta ... 5943268353

I would still say it was a missed opportunity to help that child. If you turn up at a walk-in clinic rather than A&E, you'd still expect the staff to help you, rather than sending you back onto the street with directions to the nearest A&E

That's exactly what they do if your condition isn't something they can properly assess. You show up with a suspect broken arm then they're sending you to A+E because they haven't got an x-ray machine. Much like if you apply for a passport to the Home office for a citizen who is currently overseas then you get directed to the FCO because the Home office doesn't have the people in place to deal with your request.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

A small soul dies beacuse of government incompetence.

May she rest in peace.

He.

And just no.

My mistake.

The mother deserved to be exiled for joining ISIS, but the baby should have been flown to the UK and put him in an orphanage.

[Fartsniffage]

He.

And just no.

My mistake.

The mother deserved to be exiled for joining ISIS, but the baby should have been flown to the UK and put him in an orphanage.

The UK doesn't have any orphanages.

[The South Falls]

Jarrah Begum should not have died. If her mother had any sense and stayed in Britain, she wouldn't have died, or she wouldn't have been alive. Also, "who cared about some terror bitch's baby" is a bad way to feel. It's a fucking baby. Lemme say it again. It's a fucking baby. It should not have died. If taken from it's mother, it could have grown up productive.

[Dooom35796821595]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ad-summary

2. Summary
We expect British people to take responsibility for themselves and their safety while overseas. This guide highlights some of the main things you can do to prepare for your travel and stay safe abroad and what help we can provide if you do get into difficulty.
3. Staying safe overseas
Ensure you check travel advice and sign up for country specific travel advice updates. Our travel advice will help you to form your own judgements about travelling or living in a particular country, and alert you to any new information. Keep an eye on news reports of any problems in the area you are visiting. Follow @FCOtravel on Twitter and @FCOtravel on Facebook for updates from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO)
Choosing to go to a country against our travel advice may seriously restrict any help we can provide and may also mean that your travel insurance is not valid2

This is from the British government guide to consular assistance available to citizens overseas. Notice it said you should take responsibility for your own safety, and that travailing to dangerous areas could severely limit the assistance that an be provided.

It's hard to see how that would apply to a 3 week old baby who had no choice in being born abroad

You just have to read it. It’s all there, black and white. No special exceptions for children, since children are in the care of their parents or guardians.

[Uxupox]

He.

And just no.

My mistake.

The mother deserved to be exiled for joining ISIS, but the baby should have been flown to the UK and put him in an orphanage.

1) The baby has (had?) a family.

2) Kidnapping an infant is frowned upon.

[Thermodolia]

My mistake.

The mother deserved to be exiled for joining ISIS, but the baby should have been flown to the UK and put him in an orphanage.

1) The baby has (had?) a family.

2) Kidnapping an infant is frowned upon.

Especially if said kidnapping could cause an international incident

[Fartsniffage]

My mistake.

The mother deserved to be exiled for joining ISIS, but the baby should have been flown to the UK and put him in an orphanage.

1) The baby has (had?) a family.

2) Kidnapping an infant is frowned upon.

The dad is still alive in a Syrian prison. There are grandparents in the UK. The father may also have family in Holland but if they exist they've had the good sense to be properly ashamed of their terrorist son and have kept quiet.

[Terruana]

I would still say it was a missed opportunity to help that child. If you turn up at a walk-in clinic rather than A&E, you'd still expect the staff to help you, rather than sending you back onto the street with directions to the nearest A&E

That's exactly what they do if your condition isn't something they can properly assess. You show up with a suspect broken arm then they're sending you to A+E because they haven't got an x-ray machine. Much like if you apply for a passport to the Home office for a citizen who is currently overseas then you get directed to the FCO because the Home office doesn't have the people in place to deal with your request.

They might send you to A&E anyway, but they'd also give you painkillers and stabilise any bleeding first.
Similarly, I find it hard to accept that there was absolutely nothing the home office could have done. Their own .gov page states that the first responsibility of government is to keep their citizens safe, and claims to be responsible for requests to enter and stay the UK.

I don't claim to be an expert on exactly what legal powers the home office has, but I don't believe their hands were tied here - especially since the shadow Home Secretary has also criticised the home office for their response.

[The South Falls]

It's hard to see how that would apply to a 3 week old baby who had no choice in being born abroad

You just have to read it. It’s all there, black and white. No special exceptions for children, since children are in the care of their parents or guardians.

What about people who are incapable of caring for children?

[Terruana]

It's hard to see how that would apply to a 3 week old baby who had no choice in being born abroad

You just have to read it. It’s all there, black and white. No special exceptions for children, since children are in the care of their parents or guardians.

So the three week old baby should have just taken responsibility for his own safety abroad?

[Fartsniffage]

That's exactly what they do if your condition isn't something they can properly assess. You show up with a suspect broken arm then they're sending you to A+E because they haven't got an x-ray machine. Much like if you apply for a passport to the Home office for a citizen who is currently overseas then you get directed to the FCO because the Home office doesn't have the people in place to deal with your request.

They might send you to A&E anyway, but they'd also give you painkillers and stabilise any bleeding first.
Similarly, I find it hard to accept that there was absolutely nothing the home office could have done. Their own .gov page states that the first responsibility of government is to keep their citizens safe, and claims to be responsible for requests to enter and stay the UK.

I don't claim to be an expert on exactly what legal powers the home office has, but I don't believe their hands were tied here - especially since the shadow Home Secretary has also criticised the home office for their response.

The Shadow Home Secretary is a blithering idiot who has to take her shoes off to count past 10. I would take anything she says with a very large pinch of salt.

[Terruana]

I would still say it was a missed opportunity to help that child. If you turn up at a walk-in clinic rather than A&E, you'd still expect the staff to help you, rather than sending you back onto the street with directions to the nearest A&E

Back at it again with the utterly incomparable situations, huh?

The Home Office has no legal authority to help them. Wtf were they supposed to do?

If the home office has no legal authority to help him, why have the shadow Home Secretary and the BBC home affairs correspondent also criticised their response?

[Dooom35796821595]

You just have to read it. It’s all there, black and white. No special exceptions for children, since children are in the care of their parents or guardians.

So the three week old baby should have just taken responsibility for his own safety abroad?

The mother had responsibility. The child’s mother got him killed.

You just have to read it. It’s all there, black and white. No special exceptions for children, since children are in the care of their parents or guardians.

What about people who are incapable of caring for children?

In the UK social services would take the child away. In the UK.

[Terruana]

They might send you to A&E anyway, but they'd also give you painkillers and stabilise any bleeding first.
Similarly, I find it hard to accept that there was absolutely nothing the home office could have done. Their own .gov page states that the first responsibility of government is to keep their citizens safe, and claims to be responsible for requests to enter and stay the UK.

I don't claim to be an expert on exactly what legal powers the home office has, but I don't believe their hands were tied here - especially since the shadow Home Secretary has also criticised the home office for their response.

The Shadow Home Secretary is a blithering idiot who has to take her shoes off to count past 10. I would take anything she says with a very large pinch of salt.

The BBC home affairs correspondent has also said that the government probably could have helped if the political will had been there

[Hatterleigh]

Who the fuck cares about some terror bitch's baby?

Dude it's a baby

[Fartsniffage]

The Shadow Home Secretary is a blithering idiot who has to take her shoes off to count past 10. I would take anything she says with a very large pinch of salt.

The BBC home affairs correspondent has also said that the government probably could have helped if the political will had been there

Yes, the FCO. Not the Home Office. Because the Home office deals with things at home and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office deals with things that are abroad. This isn't difficult to understand and a solicitor should know the difference.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The Shadow Home Secretary is a blithering idiot who has to take her shoes off to count past 10. I would take anything she says with a very large pinch of salt.

The BBC home affairs correspondent has also said that the government probably could have helped if the political will had been there

No, he didn't. He said it "might" have been "possible" but it would have been politically difficult. See that politically difficult bit? That's the fact of literally everything we've been saying.

As for the bit about political will, that doesn't negate the fact of that the government didn't refuse. They literally didn't. They told them where to go and said that the people they sent them to would be obligated to consider it.

[Terruana]

The BBC home affairs correspondent has also said that the government probably could have helped if the political will had been there

Yes, the FCO. Not the Home Office. Because the Home office deals with things at home and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office deals with things that are abroad. This isn't difficult to understand and a solicitor should know the difference.

But the home office also deals with passport applications. I get that applications being made from overseas should go to the FCO, but surely HMPO has other procedures in place for urgent or compassionate grounds?

[Terruana]

The BBC home affairs correspondent has also said that the government probably could have helped if the political will had been there

No, he didn't. He said it "might" have been "possible" but it would have been politically difficult. See that politically difficult bit? That's the fact of literally everything we've been saying.

As for the bit about political will, that doesn't negate the fact of that the government didn't refuse. They literally didn't. They told them where to go and said that the people they sent them to would be obligated to consider it.

Since you know so much about HMPO and the FCO, perhaps you can answer a question for me then. I've been looking into how applications on behalf of children are handled, and found an article from the BBC in 2014 which is describing how HMPO was folded into the home office. It states "However, the contingency that allowed those applying for passports overseas on behalf of their children to claim emergency travel documents will be ended and the process will return to normal, with this option available only on urgent and compassionate grounds.".

Is this still the case now? Or was it replaced with some other procedure since this article was published?

[Dooom35796821595]

Yes, the FCO. Not the Home Office. Because the Home office deals with things at home and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office deals with things that are abroad. This isn't difficult to understand and a solicitor should know the difference.

But the home office also deals with passport applications. I get that applications being made from overseas should go to the FCO, but surely HMPO has other procedures in place for urgent or compassionate grounds?

Urgent? Compassionate? You’re talking about a government bureaucracy, so I highly doubt it.