UK citizen Jarrah Begum dies in Syrian refugee camp

[Yusseria]

Showing up with a massive warship in active war zone would mean only one thing to the Russians.

The child was also a Dutch citizen. Why aren’t they getting shit for this?

Showing up with a warship could mean at least three things: recon, unloading special forces, or that thing you're thinking of. Anyways, regarding the Dutch, you're right, they should be. And it is primarily the mother's fault. But also the fault of the Brits, even if it's just a bit. Thankfully, Yusseria's the only one, thus far, saying that it's awesome that the baby died. Gives me hope for most of NSG.

Thanks for the strawman, but I'm not saying it's awesome. I'm just saying nothing of value was lost.

[Terruana]

Are you suggesting that if a child is born to a UK citizen in a country without an embassy, that child is then stuck there forever because they can't get to an embassy?

They can get on a plane and fly back to the UK, since they won’t be in a warzone.

So if the country is in a state of war, the only legal option for the British government is to do nothing and wait for the war to end before they try to get their citizens to safety?

[Greater Germany]

A shame but it’s not the UK’s fault the mother was a fucking retard

yup

[Dooom35796821595]

Well yeah to issue a passport legally they need an embassy. So why should the UK break their laws to save one random ass kid?

Because the kid was a UK citizen. And I find it hard to believe that in that situation, there is nothing the government can legally do to get that citizen back to the UK

There is nothing the government could legally have done do to get that child back to the UK.

[Fartsniffage]

Well yeah to issue a passport legally they need an embassy. So why should the UK break their laws to save one random ass kid?

Because the kid was a UK citizen. And I find it hard to believe that in that situation, there is nothing the government can legally do to get that citizen back to the UK

You do realise that the British government strongly advises against travel to countries where there is no diplomatic relationship for exactly this reason? Because there's basically fuck all they can do other than send in the gunboats if things go south?

[Shofercia]

Showing up with a warship could mean at least three things: recon, unloading special forces, or that thing you're thinking of. Anyways, regarding the Dutch, you're right, they should be. And it is primarily the mother's fault. But also the fault of the Brits, even if it's just a bit. Thankfully, Yusseria's the only one, thus far, saying that it's awesome that the baby died. Gives me hope for most of NSG.

Thanks for the strawman, but I'm not saying it's awesome. I'm just saying nothing of value was lost.

I think that babies have intrinsic values. But that's just me. Weren't you a baby once?

[Christian Confederation]

Regardless of how bad it is, this thread should be renamed- "Son of ex UK citizen who defected to ISIS dies after mother was to stubborn and stupid to let her child live a normal life in the UK."

Because the child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birth right citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

Except that this thread is about the child, not the mother.

You miss my point.
The child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birthright citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

What happens when you renounce your citizenship.
https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship
Defecting is an act of treason.

lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... _Territory

Mother is not a UK citizen so he doesn't apply. (If we were using normal logic but it's 2019 so we don't.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

[Terruana]

If you have a link to me suggesting they send the Royal Navy to Syria, please do link it. It would at least explain why you've gotten so fixated on boats...

Or a Royal Navy battleship diverted to bring them back to the UK...

Don’t pin this on me buddy

Where in that do I mention Syria? I'm quite clearly responding to the assertion that citizens abroad do not get transported home...

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Well yeah to issue a passport legally they need an embassy. So why should the UK break their laws to save one random ass kid?

Because the kid was a UK citizen. And I find it hard to believe that in that situation, there is nothing the government can legally do to get that citizen back to the UK

Alright, question. Why should this single person have been given an exception to a policy that is clearly stated and has been in place for almost a decade?

The letter also notes that the consent of Ms. Begum was required. Did Ms. Begum make clear her consent for this?

[Fartsniffage]

Except that this thread is about the child, not the mother.

You miss my point.
The child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birthright citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

What happens when you renounce your citizenship.
https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship
Defecting is an act of treason.

lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... _Territory

Mother is not a UK citizen so he doesn't apply. (If we were using normal logic but it's 2019 so we don't.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

The British government disagrees with you. The kid was a British citizen.

[Thermodolia]

Don’t pin this on me buddy

Where in that do I mention Syria? I'm quite clearly responding to the assertion that citizens abroad do not get transported home...

Do you really think we are that stupid? We know what you implied. There’s only one place a warship could be diverted to pick up a certain kid

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Except that this thread is about the child, not the mother.

You miss my point.
The child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birthright citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

What happens when you renounce your citizenship.
https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship
Defecting is an act of treason.

lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... _Territory

Mother is not a UK citizen so he doesn't apply. (If we were using normal logic but it's 2019 so we don't.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Legally, he was a citizen, mate. She never formally renounced her citizenship and it was take after the child had already been born.

[Terruana]

Except that this thread is about the child, not the mother.

You miss my point.
The child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birthright citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

What happens when you renounce your citizenship.
https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship
Defecting is an act of treason.

lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... _Territory

Mother is not a UK citizen so he doesn't apply. (If we were using normal logic but it's 2019 so we don't.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Cool, but all mainstream sources (and the UK government) acknowledge that he was a U.K. Citizen so I'm not going to change the title.

[Shofercia]

Why didn't the Brits or Dutch work through the Red Crescent to rescue the kid? Not sure if you want the Kurdish one though... Erdogan.

The refugee camp was apparently operated by the Kurdish Red Crescent. So that’s why I said that. And I don’t know why they didn’t. It’s not like the don’t do back chanel deals with terrorists

Operation: Sneak the Kid In, now commencing! Starring Alexa Vega...

[Novum Imperium Atlanticum]

She has committed treason by joining IS, therefore as tragic as the child's death is, it can be laid at her feet. As for her husband, he too is a traitor to his own state for joining a terrorist organisation. Their "marriage" is null and void, for it has been done under the umbrella of the IS caliphate which no one recognised and they were both still minors when they got married, or at least she was. Therefore, let the Kurds string them all up and give those brave warriors their own state as a reward. They were the boots on the ground in this war. As for her and the whole of the leftovers of IS or whatever other name they went by, something pertaining to a rope and a powl... Back in Nuremberg they knew how to take care of those Nazi bigwigs. Why not do the same with this vermin? Any children should be adopted by gay couples after having undergone a de-islamisation, just to stick it to the survivors, who will be left to rot in the desert. No returning to Europe for them. Let them stew in their own muck and filth.

[Terruana]

Where in that do I mention Syria? I'm quite clearly responding to the assertion that citizens abroad do not get transported home...

Do you really think we are that stupid? We know what you implied. There’s only one place a warship could be diverted to pick up a certain kid

As I have already explained, I was referencing past events in Libya as an example of UK citizens abroad getting transported home by the Royal Navy. This was in response to the assertion that UK citizens abroad would not get "a plane ticket home" courtesy of the government. I was not talking about Syria, or I would have specifically said "I think they should have sent the Royal Navy to Syria".
Are you intentionally misrepresenting what I've said because it's easier than actually responding to my points?

[Dooom35796821595]

Don’t pin this on me buddy

Where in that do I mention Syria? I'm quite clearly responding to the assertion that citizens abroad do not get transported home...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ad-summary

2. Summary
We expect British people to take responsibility for themselves and their safety while overseas. This guide highlights some of the main things you can do to prepare for your travel and stay safe abroad and what help we can provide if you do get into difficulty.
3. Staying safe overseas
Ensure you check travel advice and sign up for country specific travel advice updates. Our travel advice will help you to form your own judgements about travelling or living in a particular country, and alert you to any new information. Keep an eye on news reports of any problems in the area you are visiting. Follow @FCOtravel on Twitter and @FCOtravel on Facebook for updates from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO)
Choosing to go to a country against our travel advice may seriously restrict any help we can provide and may also mean that your travel insurance is not valid2

This is from the British government guide to consular assistance available to citizens overseas. Notice it said you should take responsibility for your own safety, and that travailing to dangerous areas could severely limit the assistance that an be provided.

[Terruana]

Because the kid was a UK citizen. And I find it hard to believe that in that situation, there is nothing the government can legally do to get that citizen back to the UK

Alright, question. Why should this single person have been given an exception to a policy that is clearly stated and has been in place for almost a decade?

The letter also notes that the consent of Ms. Begum was required. Did Ms. Begum make clear her consent for this?

Ms Begum was never presented with the choice, because the government refused to consider the family's request for help because it was "the wrong department".

And why should a child be left to die just because he can't physically get to an embassy?

[Terruana]

Where in that do I mention Syria? I'm quite clearly responding to the assertion that citizens abroad do not get transported home...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ad-summary

2. Summary
We expect British people to take responsibility for themselves and their safety while overseas. This guide highlights some of the main things you can do to prepare for your travel and stay safe abroad and what help we can provide if you do get into difficulty.
3. Staying safe overseas
Ensure you check travel advice and sign up for country specific travel advice updates. Our travel advice will help you to form your own judgements about travelling or living in a particular country, and alert you to any new information. Keep an eye on news reports of any problems in the area you are visiting. Follow @FCOtravel on Twitter and @FCOtravel on Facebook for updates from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO)
Choosing to go to a country against our travel advice may seriously restrict any help we can provide and may also mean that your travel insurance is not valid2

This is from the British government guide to consular assistance available to citizens overseas. Notice it said you should take responsibility for your own safety, and that travailing to dangerous areas could severely limit the assistance that an be provided.

It's hard to see how that would apply to a 3 week old baby who had no choice in being born abroad

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Alright, question. Why should this single person have been given an exception to a policy that is clearly stated and has been in place for almost a decade?

The letter also notes that the consent of Ms. Begum was required. Did Ms. Begum make clear her consent for this?

Ms Begum was never presented with the choice, because the government refused to consider the family's request for help because it was "the wrong department".

And why should a child be left to die just because he can't physically get to an embassy?

No. They didn't. They told them to go to a different department because they have no bloody legal authority to help them. The government as a whole never refused anything.

Because the UK has clearly stated for a decade now that if you get fucked in Syria, they can't help you. It's really not that hard. Why are you so intent on blaming the British government instead of those actually responsible for it?

[Terruana]

Because the kid was a UK citizen. And I find it hard to believe that in that situation, there is nothing the government can legally do to get that citizen back to the UK

You do realise that the British government strongly advises against travel to countries where there is no diplomatic relationship for exactly this reason? Because there's basically fuck all they can do other than send in the gunboats if things go south?

It's not like the 3 week old baby was ignoring their advice though. It's not his fault he was born in a shitty situation, and the fact that the government advises against travel to countries without diplomatic relations seem fairly irrelevant to him personally

[Christian Confederation]

You miss my point.
The child is not a UK citizen because he doesn't get birthright citizenship because his mother gave up her citizenship when she defected to ISIS.

What happens when you renounce your citizenship.
https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship
Defecting is an act of treason.

lex soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British ... _Territory

Mother is not a UK citizen so he doesn't apply. (If we were using normal logic but it's 2019 so we don't.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Cool, but all mainstream sources (and the UK government) acknowledge that he was a U.K. Citizen so I'm not going to change the title.

Still it is insane that people think people who left there Country to join a enemy are intitled to be let back in, as far as I m councerned this wouldn't have happened if the mom wasn't a LITARAL idiot and move to Syria to Mary a terorists and join ISIS.

[Terruana]

Ms Begum was never presented with the choice, because the government refused to consider the family's request for help because it was "the wrong department".

And why should a child be left to die just because he can't physically get to an embassy?

No. They didn't. They told them to go to a different department because they have no bloody legal authority to help them. The government as a whole never refused anything.

Because the UK has clearly stated for a decade now that if you get fucked in Syria, they can't help you. It's really not that hard. Why are you so intent on blaming the British government instead of those actually responsible for it?

So you're saying it's the baby's fault for ignoring the government advice?
I fully acknowledge that his mother is also responsible for his death, but the UK government also has blood on their hands for refusing to help.

[Fartsniffage]

Alright, question. Why should this single person have been given an exception to a policy that is clearly stated and has been in place for almost a decade?

The letter also notes that the consent of Ms. Begum was required. Did Ms. Begum make clear her consent for this?

Ms Begum was never presented with the choice, because the government refused to consider the family's request for help because it was "the wrong department".

And why should a child be left to die just because he can't physically get to an embassy?

That isn't true. They directed the family solicitor to the correct department and told him what information would be needed to make the request. They also pointed out that there hadn't been diplomatic relations with Syria since 2011 so the British government was very limited in terms of what help could be provided.

https://twitter.com/MohammedAkunjee/sta ... 5943268353

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

A small soul dies beacuse of government incompetence.

May she rest in peace.