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by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:17 pm
by Gig em Aggies » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:33 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
by Torrocca » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:34 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
by Vassenor » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:35 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
by Scomagia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:42 pm
Torrocca wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
... It's the media's fault that Smollett lied about getting lynched by two white dudes to spark a race war... because... reasons?
by Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:49 pm
Ifreann wrote:Greater vakolicci haven wrote:As has been pointed out by everybody but yourself, the charges are entirely in line with normal police procedure in this kind of case, as well as the peculiarities of how misinformation charges are generally handled in the US.
Police don't charge criminals, prosecutors do.
by Torrocca » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:50 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:51 pm
Torrocca wrote:Scomagia wrote:Yeah, I was previously of the opinion that the media fucked up but I don't really see what they could have done differently now.
It's not like they could've worked with information they didn't have. All they had to go on was the accusation of an unsuccessful lynching, something that hasn't happened in America since the 1970s. It's not like they could've done anything different.
by Seythennia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:54 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
Ostroeuropa wrote:The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
Seythennia is a former federal republic, now an absolute monarchy.
Factbook and Flag; member of The South Pacific
by Inkopolitia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:58 pm
Vassenor wrote:Inkopolitia wrote:As I said, people that affect situations that are happening in the world do not deserve sympathy. Smollett's stupidity and ignorance had a consequence, which comes in the form of 16 felony counts.
Which, as as been pointed out, is excessive for what actually happened.
by Hanafuridake » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:58 pm
Vassenor wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
In what way is presenting the facts as the evidence available at the time showed them to be sensationalism?
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:59 pm
Torrocca wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd, and i'm concerned that Smollett has alienated literally everyone there will be no concern for proportionality in his sentence, and a draconian punishment may be handed down without protest from people. He could potentially spend the rest of his life in prison if convicted on all 16 counts.
I'm not convinced that is proportional given that Smollett was not the person who created the material circumstances by which his actions harmed others, the sensationalist media was. Were the media not so reckless and determined to push a political narrative, this incident would have merely been a waste of officials time, certainly something that warrants punishment, but not something that has caused direct harm to others. Any sentence Smollett receives should be viewed within the context of him being a scapegoat for media recklessness.
The media are the ones who, through reckless disregard for truth in pursuit of sensationalism, and through negligence, caused the majority of the harm in this incident. We shouldn't punish Smollett simply because punishing the media is beyond our means, we should instead punish Smollett for what he actually did, wasted officials time, and evaluate the harm this incident has caused overall, before concluding the media needs to be reigned in and regulated after decades of this kind of shit.
... It's the media's fault that Smollett lied about getting lynched by two white dudes to spark a race war... because... reasons?
Vassenor wrote:In what way is presenting the facts as the evidence available at the time showed them to be sensationalism?
by Ifreann » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:59 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:01 pm
Hanafuridake wrote:
You're underestimating just how much the far-right will seize onto anything that can remotely demonize the media and justify Trump “reigning them” in (which, let's be honest, we all know what that really means).
by Andsed » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:08 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ifreann wrote:They could have ignored the whole thing. But that would be a really weird thing for profit-driven organisations to do.
Precisely my point. Unfettered capitalist media cannot be trusted to be socially responsible, and so must be regulated.Hanafuridake wrote:
You're underestimating just how much the far-right will seize onto anything that can remotely demonize the media and justify Trump “reigning them” in (which, let's be honest, we all know what that really means).
lol. Opposing capitalist media = far right.
Sure.
by Vetalia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:09 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Precisely my point. Unfettered capitalist media cannot be trusted to be socially responsible, and so must be regulated..
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Vetalia wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:Precisely my point. Unfettered capitalist media cannot be trusted to be socially responsible, and so must be regulated..
It is a huge stretch to call the mainsteam media unfettered...it's a highly regulated industry with massive barriers to entry and very little competition. Thankfully at least we have the freedom of information provided by the internet, but with the efforts pioneered by the same MSM companies to kill net neutrality it's clear they view it as a threat to their delivery of domestic propaganda.
by Vassenor » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:12 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ifreann wrote:They could have ignored the whole thing. But that would be a really weird thing for profit-driven organisations to do.
Precisely my point. Unfettered capitalist media cannot be trusted to be socially responsible, and so must be regulated.Hanafuridake wrote:
You're underestimating just how much the far-right will seize onto anything that can remotely demonize the media and justify Trump “reigning them” in (which, let's be honest, we all know what that really means).
lol. Opposing capitalist media = far right.
Sure.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
by Aclion » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:12 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm glad he's facing a trial, but feel the maximum is too high for this particular offense. 20 years on just one of the counts strikes me as absurd,
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:13 pm
Vassenor wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Precisely my point. Unfettered capitalist media cannot be trusted to be socially responsible, and so must be regulated.
lol. Opposing capitalist media = far right.
Sure.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Emphasis mine.
So no, regulating the press in the US isn't happening.
by Andsed » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:15 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Andsed wrote:You do understand the problem that come with regulating media right?
You can regulate large media conglomerates while leaving smaller ones unregulated.Vetalia wrote:
It is a huge stretch to call the mainsteam media unfettered...it's a highly regulated industry with massive barriers to entry and very little competition. Thankfully at least we have the freedom of information provided by the internet, but with the efforts pioneered by the same MSM companies to kill net neutrality it's clear they view it as a threat to their delivery of domestic propaganda.
The key is to decouple the profit motive from media reporting, or at least mute it, or punish companies for placing it above the public interest.
by Seythennia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:18 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:lol. Opposing capitalist media = far right.
Sure.
Seythennia is a former federal republic, now an absolute monarchy.
Factbook and Flag; member of The South Pacific
by Ifreann » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:21 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:22 pm
Andsed wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
You can regulate large media conglomerates while leaving smaller ones unregulated.
The key is to decouple the profit motive from media reporting, or at least mute it, or punish companies for placing it above the public interest.
Okay to what extent should the media be regulated?
by Woodfiredpizzas » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:26 pm
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