AOC in campaign money trouble

[Washington Resistance Army]

Support of nationwide $15 minimum wage shows she isn't exactly a stellar economic mind tbh

$15 minimum wage would devalue my job greatly.

It would pretty much kill off most fast food jobs tbh. At that point it's cheaper to get a machine and just pay periodic maintenance for the damn thing.

[Torrocca]

... So then, if you want the working class to have money, illegalize a business owner's ability to arbitrarily cut working hours in response to a raise in minimum wage?



Then A) introduce new taxes to the corporations to reduce the power imbalance and B) if the boss of a small business isn't willing to ensure a living wage for the workers, say by cutting back their own wages a bit, then they can get fucked anyways, because fuck Capitalism.



An ideal solution would be democracy in every business in America.

This is really low effort tbh, like c'mon you could at least try to argue from a realistic standpoint.

How about laws then that strengthen unions?

[Washington Resistance Army]

This is really low effort tbh, like c'mon you could at least try to argue from a realistic standpoint.

How about laws then that strengthen unions?

Not something I'd be opposed to, within reason of course. Ideally neither side should be able to strongarm the other.

[Genivaria]

Option 1. National minimum wage based on living costs.
Option 2. Enable unions to negotiate fair wages at the local level for each company.
Option 3. ???

I'm all ears.
And "let the poor die" is not a valid solution.
Currently we have: Make companies only pay their workers enough that they are forced to be on welfare.

[Torrocca]

How about laws then that strengthen unions?

Not something I'd be opposed to, within reason of course. Ideally neither side should be able to strongarm the other.

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Not something I'd be opposed to, within reason of course. Ideally neither side should be able to strongarm the other.

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

Your first mistake is assuming that every business owner is "the enriched" and that their businesses are piggy banks of infinite money you can just break open. It's an almost childlike idealism really.

[Genivaria]

Not something I'd be opposed to, within reason of course. Ideally neither side should be able to strongarm the other.

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

This is where people leave the negotiating table, when one side demands everything.

[Torrocca]

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

Your first mistake is assuming that every business owner is "the enriched" and that their businesses are piggy banks of infinite money you can just break open. It's an almost childlike idealism really.

They should also be able to overpower all business owners. :3

[Torrocca]

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

This is where people leave the negotiating table, when one side demands everything.

Democracy is non-negotiable.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Your first mistake is assuming that every business owner is "the enriched" and that their businesses are piggy banks of infinite money you can just break open. It's an almost childlike idealism really.

They should also be able to overpower all business owners. :3

This is why communism is a meme.

[Torrocca]

They should also be able to overpower all business owners. :3

This is why communism is a meme.

Nah.

Democracy will reign supreme, fam.

[Genivaria]

This is where people leave the negotiating table, when one side demands everything.

Democracy is non-negotiable.

And now you've stopped being serious and started meming.

[Torrocca]

Democracy is non-negotiable.

And now you've stopped being serious and started meming.

I'm entirely serious about that. We ought to oust the tyrants of Capitalism and usher in democracy in the businesses.

[Bombadil]

It would be a big disappointment if Ocasio-Cortez was directly involved in this little scandal but I'm not going to jump to conclusions right now because it'd be premature to do so. My hope in her would definitely waver if she couldn't manage to respond to these allegations or prove them wrong.

Still, I do genuinely wonder why some dislike her so passionately. I mean, we've all been complaining about how rigged and deeply corrupt the system is and how rich corporations have been exploiting society for years through actions such as lobbying but when someone like Bernie or AOC come along and try to change things up a bit, it's like as if people think they're the re-incarnation of Stalin. I'm not saying these two are messiahs of the people but they are definitely proponents for change.

I can understand that her inexperience is a clear issue but otherwise, what's wrong with her or her platform?

We've been castigating smart young women as witches since the dawn of time. As for the rest those with the means to influence are those who do not want those means to be affected at all. Therefore they con the average person using words like 'freedom' and 'socialist' and 'big government' much as tobacco did, oil does..

..they prey on the fact that many people think they're far smarter than they actually are, a delusion that allows them to fall for propaganda that leads them to vote against their interests.

I mean.. the key distractions through history to maintain power has been war and entertainment, create a fear of 'other' and distract through mindless entertainment.

A good example is the Paris sewers and Baron Haussman's vision and landowner's opposition to it. In building, a compromise was that landowners didn't have to connect to it, such was the opposition to building a means to ensure a cleaner Paris. They could point to the immediate disruption, expense, appropriation of land against the ephemeral and disputed science of a cleaner, less disease ridden city.

Same arguments against climate change.. 'it's too expensive, it costs business, the science is disputed, what are the benefits..'.

Ironically given the charge in the thread, 'follow the money' and you'll see where the arguments come from.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And now you've stopped being serious and started meming.

I'm entirely serious about that. We ought to oust the tyrants of Capitalism and usher in democracy in the businesses.

We should also shit gold and nuke Mexico, lets try to stick to real life when having debates, yeah?

[Torrocca]

I'm entirely serious about that. We ought to oust the tyrants of Capitalism and usher in democracy in the businesses.

We should also shit gold and nuke Mexico, lets try to stick to real life when having debates, yeah?

There's nothing unrealistic to the growth of liberty through democracy.

[Farnhamia]

We should also shit gold and nuke Mexico, lets try to stick to real life when having debates, yeah?

There's nothing unrealistic to the growth of liberty through democracy.

Stick to the topic.

[Washington Resistance Army]

We should also shit gold and nuke Mexico, lets try to stick to real life when having debates, yeah?

There's nothing unrealistic to the growth of liberty through democracy.

And if you want to start a co-op that's fine, but not every business is going to become one.

[Yusseria]

... So then, if you want the working class to have money, illegalize a business owner's ability to arbitrarily cut working hours in response to a raise in minimum wage?



Then A) introduce new taxes to the corporations to reduce the power imbalance and B) if the boss of a small business isn't willing to ensure a living wage for the workers, say by cutting back their own wages a bit, then they can get fucked anyways, because fuck Capitalism.



An ideal solution would be democracy in every business in America.

This is really low effort tbh, like c'mon you could at least try to argue from a realistic standpoint.

One of the great ironies I've noticed is that, despite all the rhetoric of democracy and freedom of choice commies spout, their system is inherently less free. Capitalism, at least, allows for socialism. Worker-run businesses already exist in the US.

Socialists, however, want to completely outlaw capitalism and deny people the ability to choose their own system. Doesn't really sound all that free.

[The Black Forrest]

This is really low effort tbh, like c'mon you could at least try to argue from a realistic standpoint.

One of the great ironies I've noticed is that, despite all the rhetoric of democracy and freedom of choice commies spout, their system is inherently less free. Capitalism, at least, allows for socialism. Worker-run businesses already exist in the US.

Socialists, however, want to completely outlaw capitalism and deny people the ability to choose their own system. Doesn't really sound all that free.

Hmmm? I would argue people really don't pick the system. The upper classes decided that for them.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

This is where people leave the negotiating table, when one side demands everything.

Congratulations, you discovered tripartism, also known as corporatism!

It’s a system that allows the workers (unions) and the companies/businesses to negotiate terms while mediated by the state.

It’s a severely underrated system if you ask me.

[Sicaris]

Not something I'd be opposed to, within reason of course. Ideally neither side should be able to strongarm the other.

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

No.

[Torrocca]

Nah, the workers should be able to overpower the enriched.

No.

Yeah, that's a cute opinion and all, but:

There's nothing unrealistic to the growth of liberty through democracy.

Stick to the topic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sicaris]

No.

Yeah, that's a cute opinion and all, but:

Stick to the topic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What? Those don’t even remotely relate.

Are you trying to say you want to debate me on this, but won’t because a moderator said to stay on topic (as you’re supposed to)? Because if that is, then I think zig understand what you mean.

Regardless, I’d be happy to talk about it somewhere else.

[Pasong Tirad]

Yeah, that's a cute opinion and all, but:



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What? Those don’t even remotely relate.

Are you trying to say you want to debate me on this, but won’t because a moderator said to stay on topic (as you’re supposed to)? Because if that is, then I think zig understand what you mean.

Regardless, I’d be happy to talk about it somewhere else.

That's exactly what he's saying. The LWDT might be a good place to bring this conversation.