Intersectionalism reaching full madness?

[Anantpura]

It doesn't, its just an example. I'm just saying that the west shouldn't just be the knight in shining armor, attacking countries for controversial laws. I won't be against intervention for major human rights violations, but c'mon, the bombastic way this is presented makes it clear that something more than economic sanctions are an option.

Nah we should be trying to make sure that innocents are not stoned they death for being gays.

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

[Hirota]

It doesn't, its just an example. I'm just saying that the west shouldn't just be the knight in shining armor, attacking countries for controversial laws. I won't be against intervention for major human rights violations, but c'mon, the bombastic way this is presented makes it clear that something more than economic sanctions are an option.

Can't say I disagree with you. America has a habit of being either isolationist as fuck or full on neo-con hawkish in it's foreign policy, as opposed to everything else inbetween.

What if tommorow, my country started laying sanctions upon you for consuming beef or having open access to guns? Would you like that?

Depends who you ask. I rather suspect certain nations would see that as an excuse to kill off international aid and lay sanctions upon your country in retaliation. And I rather suspect that the collective west would win that squabble, don't you?

It's horrible to say, and rather cynical, but the amount of international aid the west sends does give us a degree of leverage in guiding/forcing nations down a certain path, and the fact the US has been the sole superpower (and arguably still is) for a long time has given it some credibility in being the worlds policeman.

[Andsed]

Nah we should be trying to make sure that innocents are not stoned they death for being gays.

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

And where did I say that? An invasion is to much but sanctions and calling them out is a very good response. Also a nation that makes it legal to kill gays over some outdated religious bullshit is not one I would call innocent.

[Galloism]

Nah we should be trying to make sure that innocents are not stoned they death for being gays.

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

>Iran
>Innocent

I lol’d.

[The New California Republic]

Nah we should be trying to make sure that innocents are not stoned they death for being gays.

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

"Innocent nation" doesn't square with "nation stoning gays to death".

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

"Innocent nation" doesn't square with "nation stoning gays to death".

It's a good argument against Ansed because in another thread Andsed argued strongly that morality is just an opinion, and that society's opinion is the one that matters the most.

[Andsed]

"Innocent nation" doesn't square with "nation stoning gays to death".

It's a good argument against Ansed because in another thread Andsed argued strongly that morality is just an opinion, and that society's opinion is the one that matters the most.

Not my argument and if you want to debate that take it to that thread.

[Anantpura]

I'm not against that, but this shouldn't be an excuse for hegemony over innocent nations.

And where did I say that? An invasion is to much but sanctions and calling them out is a very good response. Also a nation that makes it legal to kill gays over some outdated religious bullshit is not one I would call innocent.

Religion is bullshit? Really?
Anyways, as I don't subscribe to an Abrahamic religion, I have a question. Why were these laws created they must have a reason right? I mean the writers of holy books obviously weren't foolish. That's why they are controversial.

[RiderSyl]

The Trump administration has clearly wanted to get into a war with Iran. This is just their ticket into one with European support.

Being used as an excuse to invade a country isn't a victory for the LGBT community. Let me know when this administration starts treating its own gay citizens with respect.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's a good argument against Ansed because in another thread Andsed argued strongly that morality is just an opinion, and that society's opinion is the one that matters the most.

Not my argument and if you want to debate that take it to that thread.

I'm just saying, you're using a double standard. There's no way one society can judge another society's treatment of homosexuals according to your own arguments, which you even applied to the Holocaust when pressed.

[Andsed]

And where did I say that? An invasion is to much but sanctions and calling them out is a very good response. Also a nation that makes it legal to kill gays over some outdated religious bullshit is not one I would call innocent.

Religion is bullshit? Really?
Anyways, as I don't subscribe to an Abrahamic religion, I have a question. Why were these laws created they must have a reason right? That's why they are controversial.

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

[The New California Republic]

And where did I say that? An invasion is to much but sanctions and calling them out is a very good response. Also a nation that makes it legal to kill gays over some outdated religious bullshit is not one I would call innocent.

Religion is bullshit? Really?

Religious bullshit =/= religion is bullshit. I don't think that you are intentionally trying to strawman him, but pay closer attention to the exact wording to avoid accidentally misinterpreting.

[Anantpura]

Religion is bullshit? Really?
Anyways, as I don't subscribe to an Abrahamic religion, I have a question. Why were these laws created they must have a reason right? That's why they are controversial.

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

What's the reason? They wouldn't just write such laws for the evulz, right? It must have been the points I stated earlier.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Religion is bullshit? Really?
Anyways, as I don't subscribe to an Abrahamic religion, I have a question. Why were these laws created they must have a reason right? That's why they are controversial.

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

And what is wrong with that?

[Anantpura]

Religious bullshit =/= religion is bullshit. I don't think that you are intentionally trying to strawman him, but pay closer attention to the exact wording to avoid accidentally misinterpreting.

Ok

[Andsed]

Not my argument and if you want to debate that take it to that thread.

I'm just saying, you're using a double standard. There's no way one society can judge another society's treatment of homosexuals according to your own arguments, which you even applied to the Holocaust when pressed.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=460701&p=35398110#p35398110

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

What's the reason? They wouldn't just write such laws for the evulz, right? It must have been the points I stated earlier.

Well they were heavily influenced by religion and the more homophobic culture of the time.

[RiderSyl]

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

What's the reason? They wouldn't just write such laws for the evulz, right? It must have been the points I stated earlier.

Not evil. Ignorance. They didn't know better.

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

And what is wrong with that?

Well, you see, "bullshit" isn't a good thing, UMN. Neither is oppression.

[United Muscovite Nations]

What's the reason? They wouldn't just write such laws for the evulz, right? It must have been the points I stated earlier.

Not evil. Ignorance. They didn't know better.

And what is wrong with that?

Well, you see, "bullshit" isn't a good thing, UMN. Neither is oppression.

According to Andsed, good and bad are just opinions, which is my point.

[The Free Joy State]

Yes religious laws that state homosexuality is wrong is utter bullshit. And these laws were created by a society that was much more oppressive and had much more regressive ideas about homosexuality.

And what is wrong with that?

Understanding has moved on, and regressive laws hurt individuals' rights to live freely.

Religious people can believe as they like without impacting on other human beings, but those rights stop where another's human rights begin.

As for this, it seems like the government is doing something without Trump's knowledge. I'm sure LGBT+ citizens in Iran would appreciate the helping hand, but I'm not sure that US citizens would appreciate being made political pawns by the current administration.

[Anantpura]

Well they were heavily influenced by religion and the more homophobic culture of the time.

Yes, the oppresive and homophobic culture that is Ancient Rome

[United Muscovite Nations]

And what is wrong with that?

Understanding has moved on, and regressive laws hurt individuals' rights to live freely.

Religious people can believe as they like without impacting on other human beings, but those rights stop where another's human rights begin.

As for this, it seems like the government is doing something without Trump's knowledge. I'm sure LGBT+ citizens in Iran would appreciate the helping hand, but I'm not sure that US citizens would appreciate being made political pawns by the current administration.

So we all agree that it's wrong, and that it being wrong isn't just an opinion, good.

[RiderSyl]

According to Andsed, good and bad are just opinions, which is my point.

I mean, they're not entirely wrong. One man's idea of good is another man's idea of evil. I think philosophically dissecting morality is better suited for the thread currently talking about it, though.

[RiderSyl]

Well they were heavily influenced by religion and the more homophobic culture of the time.

Yes, the oppresive and homophobic culture that is Ancient Rome

What? The Roman Empire's borders never reached modern-day Iran.

[United Muscovite Nations]

According to Andsed, good and bad are just opinions, which is my point.

I mean, they're not entirely wrong. One man's idea of good is another man's idea of evil. I think philosophically dissecting morality is better suited for the thread currently talking about it, though.

It may be, but whether oppressing gays is wrong is a moral opinion, so if it's really just an opinion, we shouldn't be talking about forcing other societies to adopt our opinions, or talking about how oppression is bad.

[The Free Joy State]

Understanding has moved on, and regressive laws hurt individuals' rights to live freely.

Religious people can believe as they like without impacting on other human beings, but those rights stop where another's human rights begin.

As for this, it seems like the government is doing something without Trump's knowledge. I'm sure LGBT+ citizens in Iran would appreciate the helping hand, but I'm not sure that US citizens would appreciate being made political pawns by the current administration.

So we all agree that it's wrong, and that it being wrong isn't just an opinion, good.

You're against anti-LGBT+ laws, UMN, and agree that religious rights don't override basic human rights to live and love freely? I couldn't be happier!