UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

Well I did always want society to break down completely, perhaps this is a nice first step?

[Novus America]

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

Or like a thermonuclear bomb going off.

[Audioslavia]

The Scotsman in me is a little annoyed that I can't pay off my UK bank overdraft dirt-cheap due to the inevitable pound-rebound after Brexit Day gets kicked to the future*.

The Scotsman-living-elsewhere-in-Europe in me is, naturally, fucking delighted that I get to continue living my life normally.

What makes you think that you wouldn't be able to live your life normally anyway?

Well I quite to visit the UK from time to time and when I do that I do quite like not having to queue for three hours at passport control. And there's the 'not having to get a VISA to go to fucking France' thing too.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

All of this is Camerons fault. He was a slimy little shit who decided the traditions of the oldest democracy in the world were too hard to live up to and his coalition partners shouldn't be allowed to back out of the deal if they got pissed off with him, so he passed that abomination the fixed terms parliament act and fucked up our constitution right before he caused a massive crisis with Brexit then ran for the hills instead of cleaning up his mess.

Without the Fixed terms act this would have been resolved by now, May would be gone and replaced with some other Tory.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

What makes you think that you wouldn't be able to live your life normally anyway?

Well I quite to visit the UK from time to time and when I do that I do quite like not having to queue for three hours at passport control. And there's the 'not having to get a VISA to go to fucking France' thing too.

When I go outside the EU (a few times a year) I get through passport control pretty easily.

[Philjia]

Tobias Elwood does indeed appear to be missing from the adjournment debate.

[The New California Republic]

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

All of this is Camerons fault. He was a slimy little shit who decided the traditions of the oldest democracy in the world were too hard and his coalition partners shouldn't be allowed to back out of the deal if they got pissed off with him, so he passed that abomination the fixed terms parliament act and fucked up our constitution right before he caused a massive crisis with Brexit then ran for the hills instead of cleaning up his mess.

Without the Fixed terms act this would have been resolved by now.

He is probably hiding in his shed playing with model train sets while the UK system of government goes to shit.

[Novus America]

But why not just let the UK shoot itself in the head?
Telling the UK no delay means they are finally forced to do something.

Because Ireland.

Anyway, let's all just take a minute to appreciate what Brexit is all about.

Tear down a whole lot of existing UK government institutions, because they're EU-level or EU-coordinated institutions.

Rebuild a whole chunk of the UK government state apparatus.

And have these very same MPs decide on what that is going to look like.

Yay for taking back control!

Okay. You have a good point there on the last part.

But I think telling the UK no delay might help Ireland because it would ensure no more uncertainty after the 29th.

I think it is clear at this point playing nice with the UK Parliament is not going to work.
Tell them to pull the trigger, drop the gun. No more stalling.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Well I quite to visit the UK from time to time and when I do that I do quite like not having to queue for three hours at passport control. And there's the 'not having to get a VISA to go to fucking France' thing too.

When I go outside the EU (a few times a year) I get through passport control pretty easily.

That is nice for you. You are lucky.

Britain-Europe relations wont be like that after a hard Brexit. Flying through Schiphol to a non-EU visa country is a nightmare.

[The New California Republic]

What makes you think that you wouldn't be able to live your life normally anyway?

Well I quite to visit the UK from time to time and when I do that I do quite like not having to queue for three hours at passport control. And there's the 'not having to get a VISA to go to fucking France' thing too.

The last-minute weekend getaway to Paris etc is effectively dead.

[Novus America]

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

All of this is Camerons fault. He was a slimy little shit who decided the traditions of the oldest democracy in the world were too hard to live up to and his coalition partners shouldn't be allowed to back out of the deal if they got pissed off with him, so he passed that abomination the fixed terms parliament act and fucked up our constitution right before he caused a massive crisis with Brexit then ran for the hills instead of cleaning up his mess.

Without the Fixed terms act this would have been resolved by now, May would be gone and replaced with some other Tory.

Replacing May would solve absolutely nothing.
You just get a even worse (yes, really) person completely unable to do anything.

[The New California Republic]

Flying through Schiphol to a non-EU visa country is a nightmare.

I go through Schiphol fairly frequently, I have noticed the non-EU queues have been fucking awful every time I have been there. It pains me to think that I am going to be thrown into that queue very soon...

[Valrifell]

Reading these last few pages has been wild, man. The vibe I'm getting is that Westminster is on the verge of political implosion.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

[Audioslavia]

Well I quite to visit the UK from time to time and when I do that I do quite like not having to queue for three hours at passport control. And there's the 'not having to get a VISA to go to fucking France' thing too.

When I go outside the EU (a few times a year) I get through passport control pretty easily.

That's because your're an EU citizen mate.

[Thermodolia]

Wow, a majority of 4 for ruling out no deal.

Nearly 310 MPs voted to keep it on the table, including Labour. Most people were expecting no more than 150 a few months ago.

Them's the rules though. No more No Deal.

Not quite.

[Senegalboy]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

And her deal was quite good. The best the UK could have hoped for.

[Novus America]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

Yup.
I would have literally told Parliament to fuck off and then hopped on a plan to the Bahamas or something.

Why she wants to put up with this shit is beyond me.
It is obviously not for self gain.
And her resigning would not help the UK.
Though it would make her life better.

[Senegalboy]

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

And her deal was quite good. The best the UK could have hoped for.

It is better than Labour's deal.Which is de facto remain.

[The Archregimancy]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

No, but she agreed to try and pick up the pieces.

And she called an unnecessary general election that destroyed her majority.

And she triggered Article 50 before she needed to.

My sympathy towards May extends as far as recognising that any Prime Minister would have struggled in the present circumstances; but if she didn't make her own bed, she certainly feathered it.

[Novus America]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

Yes. She did the best she could have really.
She got a reasonable enough deal. Parliament should have just taken it.
Things would be much better now.

And then they could argue about how to change the deal endlessly without actually hurting anything.

[Heloin]

May has grown on me. She might be doing a bad job, but no one could do a good job in her place. And yet she soldiers on.

I kind of feel sorry for her. She has been negotiating a deal for two and a half years only to be defeated by a 230 majority.She has been attacked by the EU on one side and Parliament on the other and she didn't even vote for all this in the first place.

I think someone on HIGNFY once described her as a punching bag. Doesn't matter how much literally everyone throws at her, she just keeps taking it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Holy shit. There's a poll out that asks people what they think should be done, and 70% of Conservative voters think May shouldn't resign, shouldn't call an election. They also oppose the deal, oppose delaying, and support a no deal Brexit, but for that it's a slim majority with a lot of "IDK!".

Almost everyone else in the country said; yes she should resign, there should be an election, the deal is shit, have a second referendum.

[Ostroeuropa]

Holy shit. There's a poll out that asks people what they think should be done, and 70% of Conservative voters think May shouldn't resign, shouldn't call an election. They also oppose the deal, oppose delaying, and support a no deal Brexit, but for that it's a slim majority with a lot of "IDK!".

Almost everyone else in the country said; yes she should resign, there should be an election, the deal is shit, have a second referendum.