UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Neu Leonstein]

If the pound could kindly stop rising...

I got a tax return sitting in GBP right now, ready to come home at some point, so I'm not minding this.

[The New California Republic]

Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

lol where the fuck is he

is he down the pub? did he do a runner? is he hiding in the toilets?

Planning a literal coup as we speak.

[The Blaatschapen]

Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

lol where the fuck is he

is he down the pub? did he do a runner? is he hiding in the toilets?

He is wearing a red and white horizontal striped shirt.

What is a three line whip?

[Souseiseki]

Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

lol where the fuck is he

is he down the pub? did he do a runner? is he hiding in the toilets?

He is wearing a red and white horizontal striped shirt.

What is a three line whip?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_(politics)#United_Kingdom

[Neu Leonstein]

What if it is shoot yourself in the head now or shoot yourself in the head after slowly slicing off all appendages except one arm for those 30 minutes?

As unpleasant as it is to watch from the UK perspective, to be honest Brexit is not enough of an issue in the rest of the EU to go with that comparison. There'd be intermittent shaking of the head, I'm sure. But other than the negotiating team, European leaders can mercifully put the whole thing out of their minds for a couple of months.

[The New California Republic]

What is a three line whip?

https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and ... pal/whips/

[Novus America]

I agree. She is bad. Her deal is bad. But there is no better option.

The others are
A) Delay. Make the pain more prolonged without accomplishing anything
B) Cancel Brexit. Would leave the UK in a bad place. Still in the EU but hated by it. Good luck trying to get anything from the EU after you showed you a full of BS and have zero leverage.
Also would make the political environment a mess.
C) Hard Brexit

So what option is better than her deal?

Cancelling Brexit is the worst thing possible for Britain and if the main parties agree to cancel Brexit then i would expect the rise of Right wing populist parties

I agree it would be a disaster.

Leaving only her stupid deal.
Just take the damn deal. Please UK. Just end this.
You can then pretend to try to do something after taking her deal.
Decide to not decide on how to change it. Whatever.

But at least there would be a break from the pain because Parliament not doing anything would not actually make things worse anymore.

[Ostroeuropa]

Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

lol where the fuck is he

is he down the pub? did he do a runner? is he hiding in the toilets?

He is wearing a red and white horizontal striped shirt.

What is a three line whip?

You're not allowed to instruct MPs how to vote, its contempt of parliament.

So instead they do;

Your presence is requested
Your presence is requested with one line underlining it, two lines, or three lines.

Three lines means "Do it or you're banned from the party."

so in the time between the vote, a whip went up and underlined the document three times, signalling the governments change in position away from a free vote and toward threatening dissent with party expulsion.

[Novus America]

What if it is shoot yourself in the head now or shoot yourself in the head after slowly slicing off all appendages except one arm for those 30 minutes?

As unpleasant as it is to watch from the UK perspective, to be honest Brexit is not enough of an issue in the rest of the EU to go with that comparison. There'd be intermittent shaking of the head, I'm sure. But other than the negotiating team, European leaders can mercifully put the whole thing out of their minds for a couple of months.

Oh, my comparison was from the UK perspective.

A delay hurts the EU less to be sure.

But why not just let the UK shoot itself in the head?
Telling the UK no delay means they are finally forced to do something.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

What is a three line whip?

It's a fetish thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

Has the 3 line whip been defied on this scale before and it hasn't meant an immediate government collapse? May could have set yet another parliamentary record.

That was bloody daft to do on an issue like this. The 3 line whip is supposed to be for votes of confidence, with the understanding that if you turn against your leader and they survive, you're gone. Using a 3 line whip is an indication that May believes her government is about to collapse. MPs have called her bluff.

She could expel 40+ conservative MPs and lose her majority immediately, or she can look weak.

[The Huskar Social Union]

If a vote of no confidence was called surely she would lose it at this stage? Like... this is beyond a clusterfuck.

[The New California Republic]

If a vote of no confidence was called surely she would lose it at this stage? Like... this is beyond a clusterfuck.

If they had held off a vote of no confidence until tonight then it possibly could have succeeded.

[Neu Leonstein]

But why not just let the UK shoot itself in the head?
Telling the UK no delay means they are finally forced to do something.

Because Ireland.

Anyway, let's all just take a minute to appreciate what Brexit is all about.

Tear down a whole lot of existing UK government institutions, because they're EU-level or EU-coordinated institutions.

Rebuild a whole chunk of the UK government state apparatus.

And have these very same MPs decide on what that is going to look like.

Yay for taking back control!

[The New California Republic]

BREAKING
Sarah Newton resigns
The DWP minister has quit, says the BBC's political correspondent

[The Archregimancy]

So no-deal Brexit happening?

The Commons has basically said that the government cannot leave without a deal.

Except that, on this issue, Jacob Rees-Mogg - much as it pains me to admit it - is right.

Today's rejection of a no-deal Brexit by Parliament is non-binding; a motion of the House does not override statute law. John Bercow has since confirmed that this is the case.

So Parliament has signalled that it's against no-deal Brexit under any circumstances, but - as that vote is presently formulated - lacks the power to enforce its motion.

Meanwhile, by losing a three-line whip vote against its own (amended) motion, the government has demonstrated that it's too weak to defeat the government.

Has the 3 line whip been defied on this scale before and it hasn't meant an immediate government collapse?

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

[Joushiki Nante Iranai]

BREAKING
Sarah Newton resigns
The DWP minister has quit, says the BBC's political correspondent

Already on Wikipedia. Wow that's quick.

[Shamhnan Insir]

At what point are they going to give up and realise they can't "carry out the result of the referendum" at the present time? The parliament is going nowhere, all the little camps are too dug into their own self-righteousness to pull their heads out of their arses.
How bitter a pill will the May Deal be on it's third outing?
"oh here we go again its the same shit, just a bit colder, liable to cause choking and will certainly stick to your teeth"

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Has the pm ever whipped against the pm before?

[Audioslavia]

The Scotsman in me is a little annoyed that I can't pay off my UK bank overdraft dirt-cheap due to the inevitable pound-rebound after Brexit Day gets kicked to the future*.

The Scotsman-living-elsewhere-in-Europe in me is, naturally, fucking delighted that I get to continue living my life normally.

* May or may not happen. Your Brexit may vary.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

The Scotsman in me is a little annoyed that I can't pay off my UK bank overdraft dirt-cheap due to the inevitable pound-rebound after Brexit Day gets kicked to the future*.

The Scotsman-living-elsewhere-in-Europe in me is, naturally, fucking delighted that I get to continue living my life normally.

What makes you think that you wouldn't be able to live your life normally anyway?

[The New California Republic]

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

[Joushiki Nante Iranai]

The Scotsman in me is a little annoyed that I can't pay off my UK bank overdraft dirt-cheap due to the inevitable pound-rebound after Brexit Day gets kicked to the future*.

The Scotsman-living-elsewhere-in-Europe in me is, naturally, fucking delighted that I get to continue living my life normally.

* May or may not happen. Your Brexit may vary.

Lucky.

[Caracasus]

There is no precedent. Indeed, the government is currently setting a new precedent: that you can lose vote after vote on the key issue of the day, itself the central legislative issue of the government, by huge, unprecedented margins that demonstrate without any doubt that neither the government nor that legislation enjoy the confidence of the House, and yet not be forced out of office.

Similarly, by refusing to sack ministers who refused to back a three-line whip by abstaining because the government is too weak to enforce the whip or its consequences, the government is essentially undermining both the function and the power of party whipping.

The Westminster system of government is breaking down in front of our eyes.

It is kinda beautiful in a way. In the same way that a volcano or a hurricane can be beautiful.

I have no fucking clue what is happening, but I am pretty certain it's really important.

[Shamhnan Insir]

The Scotsman in me is a little annoyed that I can't pay off my UK bank overdraft dirt-cheap due to the inevitable pound-rebound after Brexit Day gets kicked to the future*.

The Scotsman-living-elsewhere-in-Europe in me is, naturally, fucking delighted that I get to continue living my life normally.

* May or may not happen. Your Brexit may vary.

As someone in essentially the same boat, I concur.