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UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who is your preferred Conservative Party leadership candidate?

Gove
5
4%
Hunt
11
9%
Javid
5
4%
Johnson
37
31%
Raab
11
9%
Stewart
50
42%
 
Total votes : 119

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46102
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue May 21, 2019 2:19 am

Hirota wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Pretty much the only difference is that Galloway is an open stooge for a foreign power rather than a latent stooge.


Or Jezza, if we really want to go down this path of silly conspiracy theories you seem keen to walk down.


Galloway literally had a gig as a pundit on Press TV. That's not a conspiracy theory.
Last edited by Vassenor on Tue May 21, 2019 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue May 21, 2019 2:23 am

Nigel Farage once declared that he'd "don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" if his type of Brexit wasn't implemented.

He said Brexit had been won "without a single bullet being fired" days after Jo Cox was murdered.

Spare me the tears over a banana and salted caramel milkshake.
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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 52205
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue May 21, 2019 2:23 am

Vassenor wrote:


Galloway literally had a gig as a pundit on Press TV. That's not a conspiracy theory.


He's a crypto-muslim and this is one of the ways he expresses his faith in a crypto fashion, by avoiding publicizing that fact except on networks pretty much only muslims listen to. Just saying if he's pro-Iran then his opposition to the Iraq war makes no sense.

He's mostly just anti-western.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue May 21, 2019 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hirota
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5653
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Tue May 21, 2019 2:37 am

Vassenor wrote:
Nigel Farage once declared that he'd "don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" if his type of Brexit wasn't implemented.

He said Brexit had been won "without a single bullet being fired" days after Jo Cox was murdered.

Spare me the tears over a banana and salted caramel milkshake.
Yes, Owen Jones is an idiot with too much time on his hands spouting insane twattery on twatter. Maybe source the idiot you idiotically quote next time.

But you following that snotty little turd really does explain a lot about how easy it is to mock your silly posts.
Last edited by Hirota on Tue May 21, 2019 2:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 3:02 am

Only the EU could institute a PR voting system that still results in tactical voting.

Currently dithering over whether Labour getting a seat in my region is guaranteed enough to vote Green in the narrow hope they'd get a seat rather than the Lib Dems so two left wing parties get in.
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Ifreann
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Posts: 133381
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue May 21, 2019 3:05 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Only the EU could institute a PR voting system that still results in tactical voting.

Currently dithering over whether Labour getting a seat in my region is guaranteed enough to vote Green in the narrow hope they'd get a seat rather than the Lib Dems so two left wing parties get in.

You instituted it, not the EU.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:07 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Only the EU could institute a PR voting system that still results in tactical voting.

Currently dithering over whether Labour getting a seat in my region is guaranteed enough to vote Green in the narrow hope they'd get a seat rather than the Lib Dems so two left wing parties get in.

Either you must really hate the Lib Dems or the UK Greens are very different from the Australian Greens.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14179
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue May 21, 2019 3:08 am

Vassenor wrote:


Galloway literally had a gig as a pundit on Press TV. That's not a conspiracy theory.

Do you mean like ken livingstone, lembit opik, nick Ferrari and some guy called Jeremy Corbyn?

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40781
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 3:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Only the EU could institute a PR voting system that still results in tactical voting.

Currently dithering over whether Labour getting a seat in my region is guaranteed enough to vote Green in the narrow hope they'd get a seat rather than the Lib Dems so two left wing parties get in.

You instituted it, not the EU.


Begone, Irish saboteur. It's always the EU's fault, we voted to take back control not responsibility.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Tue May 21, 2019 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
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The Grims
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1274
Founded: Antiquity
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Grims » Tue May 21, 2019 3:13 am

Ifreann wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Only the EU could institute a PR voting system that still results in tactical voting.

Currently dithering over whether Labour getting a seat in my region is guaranteed enough to vote Green in the narrow hope they'd get a seat rather than the Lib Dems so two left wing parties get in.

You instituted it, not the EU.

That's the case with most things the anti-EU crowd whines about ;)

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40781
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 3:19 am

The Grims wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You instituted it, not the EU.

That's the case with most things the anti-EU crowd whines about ;)


no u
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¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
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Hirota
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5653
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Tue May 21, 2019 3:20 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Galloway literally had a gig as a pundit on Press TV. That's not a conspiracy theory.

Do you mean like ken livingstone, lembit opik, nick Ferrari and some guy called Jeremy Corbyn?
Fancy that. Glorious leader is an Iranian stooge, if we apply Vassenorian levels of "logic."
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 133381
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue May 21, 2019 3:20 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You instituted it, not the EU.


Begone, Irish saboteur. It's always the EU's fault, we voted to take back control not responsibility.

The true meaning of Brexit.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40781
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 3:24 am

Hirota wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Do you mean like ken livingstone, lembit opik, nick Ferrari and some guy called Jeremy Corbyn?
Fancy that. Glorious leader is an Iranian stooge, if we apply Vassenorian levels of "logic."


Is Vass even a socialist or just a centre-centre left liberal?

We know plenty of stuff she's against, but I don't think any of us have a clue what she's for.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:43 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Hirota wrote:Fancy that. Glorious leader is an Iranian stooge, if we apply Vassenorian levels of "logic."


Is Vass even a socialist or just a centre-centre left liberal?

We know plenty of stuff she's against, but I don't think any of us have a clue what she's for.

To be fair, I could ask the same question about you. Are you a full on seize the means of production Socialist or a hybridist/corporatist/third positionist type deal?
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 133381
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue May 21, 2019 3:45 am

Who needs sincere political beliefs when you have sarcasm?
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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54036
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue May 21, 2019 3:48 am

Ifreann wrote:Who needs sincere political beliefs when you have sarcasm?


And sarcasm is still more constructive than racism :)
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Dumb Ideologies
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Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Is Vass even a socialist or just a centre-centre left liberal?

We know plenty of stuff she's against, but I don't think any of us have a clue what she's for.

To be fair, I could ask the same question about you. Are you a full on seize the means of production Socialist or a hybridist/corporatist/third positionist type deal?


The left side of the latter, i.e. combined with expanding ordinary people's stake in the enterprises they work in, renationalising all public services, and establishing both a maximum wage and a basic income.

I have discussed this before, my dear ancap.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
Senator
 
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:56 am

The blAAtschApen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Who needs sincere political beliefs when you have sarcasm?


And sarcasm is still more constructive than racism :)


Racism truly is the lowest form of wit.
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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40781
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue May 21, 2019 4:04 am

The blAAtschApen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Who needs sincere political beliefs when you have sarcasm?


And sarcasm is still more constructive than racism :)


Just the sort of nonsense I'd expect from a foreigner ・ᴗ・
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Hirota
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Posts: 5653
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Tue May 21, 2019 4:10 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
The blAAtschApen wrote:
And sarcasm is still more constructive than racism :)


Racism truly is the lowest form of wit.


Unless it's historic Japanese weaponry being incorrectly attributed as racism. Then it becomes...well, it becomes something.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted, pedants and koi carp.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 4:24 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:To be fair, I could ask the same question about you. Are you a full on seize the means of production Socialist or a hybridist/corporatist/third positionist type deal?


The left side of the latter, i.e. combined with expanding ordinary people's stake in the enterprises they work in, renationalising all public services, and establishing both a maximum wage and a basic income.

Fair enough. But what do you mean by "public service?"

I have discussed this before, my dear ancap.

Oh God, is this gonna become a running joke?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54036
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue May 21, 2019 4:28 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The left side of the latter, i.e. combined with expanding ordinary people's stake in the enterprises they work in, renationalising all public services, and establishing both a maximum wage and a basic income.

Fair enough. But what do you mean by "public service?"

I have discussed this before, my dear ancap.

Oh God, is this gonna become a running joke?


Now it will be, my dear ancap.
Forumer mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Heaven is other people
Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
Silent is an anagram of listen.
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52205
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:To be fair, I could ask the same question about you. Are you a full on seize the means of production Socialist or a hybridist/corporatist/third positionist type deal?


The left side of the latter, i.e. combined with expanding ordinary people's stake in the enterprises they work in, renationalising all public services, and establishing both a maximum wage and a basic income.

I have discussed this before, my dear ancap.


A maximum wage i'd tolerate only within the context of it being tagged to overall prosperity levels rather than the crap we do with minimum wage. I'd also prefer revenue generated above that maximum be customizable in a way ordinary tax is not and think this would probably reduce the problem of "lack of incentive" if people could earmark their excess to be spent on government programmes they actually support, rather than risk the "Lack of incentive" becoming an active disincentive when they start pondering how many bombs this hour of work is going to effectively produce for the government without the excuse that they "Need the money".

I do however support an in-corporate maximum wage where the highest wage can only be some multiple of the lowest wage at that corporation. It's a general national maximum wage i'm suspicious of, as I don't particularly see what someone working for Company A can do about the poor sods over at Company B not making much money.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue May 21, 2019 5:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52205
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue May 21, 2019 5:29 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
He's hardly a Thatcherite and was Thatchers right hand man in the sense that if she didn't give some of the Wets power, they would oust her. He was a wet tory and one of the reasons she was brought down. He's always been on the left of the party.


He wasn't even in government when they ousted Thatcher. He got kicked out over helicopters, not his support for Maggie.


... Do you not know how Thatcher was ousted?

Hestletine issued the challenge to her leadership and pulled down 43% of the vote, necessitating a second round. Leaks and so on indicated that since it became apparent Thatcher could actually lose the second round, rebel MPs and careerists were emboldened to break rank and would back Hestletine in the second round and lead the Wets to victory and the marginalization of the Thatcherite faction. Thatcher declined to participate and withdrew from the race in order to knife Hestletine and the wets, because the only reason he did so well was as a compromise anti-thatcher candidate everyone could broadly tolerate.

Without Thatcher as a uniting force, his support balkanized into the various factions again (Communitarians, one nation tories, traditionalists, blairite types, and so on). He was nobodies favorite, but somebody people would tolerate to get rid of Thatcher. This allowed all the factions to pretend they had nothing to do with it and blame Hesltetine, meaning they could court the Thatcherite faction.

Major eventually won because he was a compromise between anti-thatcher and pro-thatcher factions of the party, the actual middle ground, whereas Hesltetine was the middle ground for anti-thatcherism.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue May 21, 2019 5:36 am, edited 4 times in total.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
https://i.redd.it/zj1a11ooxwb31.jpg

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