UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Aclion]

Michael Heseltine has been suspended for backing the Lib Dems

Can someone translate this to American?

[Fartsniffage]

Michael Heseltine has been suspended for backing the Lib Dems

Can someone translate this to American?

Thatcher right hand man and arch-Conservative, who is now a Lord, said in an interview that he would vote for the Lib Dem candidate in his area for the European Parliament because he still believes that the UK should remain in Europe.

The Conservative party have suspended him from the whip so he will now have to sit in the House of Lords as an Independent, not a Conservative.

[Ostroeuropa]

Michael Heseltine has been suspended for backing the Lib Dems

Can someone translate this to American?

A famous conservative figure has publicly said he supports the liberal democrats now, and so the conservative party has suspended his membership.

It'd be kind of like John McCain saying he's now going to vote for Clinton.

[Ostroeuropa]

Can someone translate this to American?

Thatcher right hand man and arch-Conservative, who is now a Lord, said in an interview that he would vote for the Lib Dem candidate in his area for the European Parliament because he still believes that the UK should remain in Europe.

The Conservative party have suspended him from the whip so he will now have to sit in the House of Lords as an Independent, not a Conservative.

He's hardly a Thatcherite and was Thatchers right hand man in the sense that if she didn't give some of the Wets power, they would oust her. He was a wet tory and one of the reasons she was brought down. He's always been on the left of the party.

[Nimzonia]

Heseltine is lucky they didn't suspend him for his antics a few years ago, when he tied some balloons to his house and flew it around the world.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Good old Tarzan. Lib Dem surge.

[Ostroeuropa]

Hestletine is what the Tory party should be;
Blairite.

Thus providing room for the left to exist.

[Fartsniffage]

Thatcher right hand man and arch-Conservative, who is now a Lord, said in an interview that he would vote for the Lib Dem candidate in his area for the European Parliament because he still believes that the UK should remain in Europe.

The Conservative party have suspended him from the whip so he will now have to sit in the House of Lords as an Independent, not a Conservative.

He's hardly a Thatcherite and was Thatchers right hand man in the sense that if she didn't give some of the Wets power, they would oust her. He was a wet tory and one of the reasons she was brought down. He's always been on the left of the party.

He wasn't even in government when they ousted Thatcher. He got kicked out over helicopters, not his support for Maggie.

[Liriena]

Hestletine is what the Tory party should be;
Blairite.

Thus providing room for the left to exist.

But then who would stage pointless coups against Chairman Jezza???

[The Rich Port]

Really, people who voted for the first option?

The only way Britain's leaving the EU is if UKIP breaks into Parliament disguised as the House of Lords and somehow tricks the BBC and the Queen that they just made a unanimous vote before anybody realizes what's going on.

[Bear Stearns]

Barclays, Llyod's, or Rothschild?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

What even is this post.

To xplain the xplanation. SJW kinda sorta love Gays, but SJW super doper love Islam, therefore when Terrorists throw Gays off High buildings, SJW insist it is a good thing because it's part 0f their Culture

When has an "SJW" ever expressed approval at gays being thrown off buildings?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I'm pretty sure Stephen Fry isn't going to be the new Göring, despite his expanding waistline.

I'm sure he won't, but tabloid rags gotta get their clicks somehow.

---

Or you could you know, use the symbol for what it originally fucking meant and what the vast majority of people use it for instead of making out people who use it to be racists and not allow a bunch of knuckle dragging pigment haters to take it over because we fell for a fucking troll on the internet?

Tell me more about how the swastika is a Buddhist symbol with no association to the Nazis. Tell me about how pathetic it is to think that someone with a swastika tattoo is probably a Nazi. Haha, you all fell for Hitler's troll! Fools!

The difference is that the swastika (at least in the west) has been successfully and more or less completely claimed by Nazism. Things like milk and the OK sign have not been. To treat innocuous use of the OK sign as if it were Nazi dogwhistling is to help Nazis claim it completely.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Heseltine has jumped ship from the Conservatives to the Lib Dems.

We may be witnessing the exodus of the wet Tories in a way that will spell the downfall of the oldest political party in the world. The Tory hard brexiteers will either wrest total control over the party, or the supermajority of Tory voters will flip to Brex.

In order to wrest total control, the Wet Tories have to leave the party. But those Tories?


Those are the ones that make the Conservative Party a viable party. Without them, they aren't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wets_and_dries

Gilmour was the most outspoken, delivering a lecture at Cambridge in February 1980 where he argued: "In the Conservative view, economic liberalism à la Professor Hayek, because of its starkness and its failure to create a sense of community, is not a safeguard of political freedom but a threat to it.

Been a long time coming, but maybe, just maybe, Thatchers bullshit has come home to roost and the Tories are basically done for.

Also lol. Whats this?

Stuffy posh people and Communitarians vS Libertarians and "The Monday Club"? I wonder what the connection between those last two is. I keep getting told libertarians aren't racist.

"We're libertarians. Also, keep the empire, increase military spending, crack down on these rebels. Also, no darkies in our country thankyou."

To what "libertarians" are you referring?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Barclays, Llyod's, or Rothschild?

Is this a peculiar game of fuck, marry, kill?

[The Rich Port]

Barclays, Llyod's, or Rothschild?

Is this a peculiar game of fuck, marry, kill?

Representative democracy in a nutshell

[Bear Stearns]

Is this a peculiar game of fuck, marry, kill?

Representative democracy in a nutshell

Let's see Paul Allen's nutshell.

[Hirota]

Like it or not he is a legitimate representative of the views of a substantial portion of the public who are citizens of this country. A plurality of the people of this country, even, if polls are anything to go by.

A plurality also voted for Thatcher in the rye. Doesn't mean she deserves any sort of reverence.

I'd have thought anyone who goes to war to bash the fash (even as a side effect) would get some credit from you Liri.

Like it or not he is a legitimate representative of the views of a substantial portion of the public who are citizens of this country. A plurality of the people of this country, even, if polls are anything to go by.

And suddenly polling is accurate again.

I don't think the polls are accurate at all. As certain opinions are demonised, people are less inclined to communicate their support when asked about groups associated with the opinions being demonised. It's probably a variation on the spiral of silence focused on the increasing culture of intolerance towards opinions that run counter to the vocal narrative of the political and media class.

That all changes in the polling booth though - there is no judgement, there is no political and media class pushing a narrative. There is just the pencil and the paper. And then, if enough people somehow felt unable to talk about their opinions in an honest way without being treated like a pariah, yet held to those opinions in the polling booth, you get the polls saying one thing and the elections saying another.

It's why Brexit did better than expected in 2016 - supporters of Brexit were hardly going to declare their true feelings to pollsters when the vocal narrative is that support for Brexit is inherently racist. It's why Trump did better than expected in 2016, for many of the same reasons. It's why the Coaltition did better than expected in Australia - more conservative voters were hardly going to declare their true feelings to pollsters when the vocal narrative is that support for the Liberals is inheritently unenviromental.

In the Euro polls this effect probably occurs in multiple directions. People are less likely to say they are going to vote for labour, because the vocal narrative is labour is anti-semetic. People are less likely to say they are going to vote for the Brexit party, because the vocal narrative is that Farage is far-right. There are probably other examples for other parties, which probably means this effect is more diffuse, and therefore Euro polls might be more accurate (or rather less inaccurate). I personally expect Brexit and Labour to do slightly better than polled.

But this censorious viewpoint that certain opinions or beliefs should not be allowed in the public sphere is (I believe) directly responsible for pollsters being unable to pick up the mood of the public when certain opinions or beliefs are verboten in the public sphere by the political and media class.

---

Anyhoo, I saw George Galloway on the Beeb the other night, and whilst he still has some very odd (and some rather anti-semetic yet contradictory) opinions here and there, he is a decent example of a very old school "left winger" who is in support of Brexit. As long as he doesn't purr, he's normally a decent listen.

[Vassenor]

Brexit: Hammond to warn Tories over no-deal 'hijack'

So it turns out No Deal is in fact not what the population at large wants at all.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

A plurality also voted for Thatcher in the rye. Doesn't mean she deserves any sort of reverence.

I'd have thought anyone who goes to war to bash the fash (even as a side effect) would get some credit from you Liri.

And suddenly polling is accurate again.

I don't think the polls are accurate at all. As certain opinions are demonised, people are less inclined to communicate their support when asked about groups associated with the opinions being demonised. It's probably a variation on the spiral of silence focused on the increasing culture of intolerance towards opinions that run counter to the vocal narrative of the political and media class.

That all changes in the polling booth though - there is no judgement, there is no political and media class pushing a narrative. There is just the pencil and the paper. And then, if enough people somehow felt unable to talk about their opinions in an honest way without being treated like a pariah, yet held to those opinions in the polling booth, you get the polls saying one thing and the elections saying another.

It's why Brexit did better than expected in 2016 - supporters of Brexit were hardly going to declare their true feelings to pollsters when the vocal narrative is that support for Brexit is inherently racist. It's why Trump did better than expected in 2016, for many of the same reasons. It's why the Coaltition did better than expected in Australia - more conservative voters were hardly going to declare their true feelings to pollsters when the vocal narrative is that support for the Liberals is inheritently unenviromental.

In the Euro polls this effect probably occurs in multiple directions. People are less likely to say they are going to vote for labour, because the vocal narrative is labour is anti-semetic. People are less likely to say they are going to vote for the Brexit party, because the vocal narrative is that Farage is far-right. There are probably other examples for other parties, which probably means this effect is more diffuse, and therefore Euro polls might be more accurate (or rather less inaccurate). I personally expect Brexit and Labour to do slightly better than polled.

But this censorious viewpoint that certain opinions or beliefs should not be allowed in the public sphere is (I believe) directly responsible for pollsters being unable to pick up the mood of the public when certain opinions or beliefs are verboten in the public sphere by the political and media class.

---

Anyhoo, I saw George Galloway on the Beeb the other night, and whilst he still has some very odd (and some rather anti-semetic yet contradictory) opinions here and there, he is a decent example of a very old school "left winger" who is in support of Brexit. As long as he doesn't purr, he's normally a decent listen.

I've always had a lot of respect for Mr. Galloway.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Odd how we all read people differently. I've always seen George Galloway as a self-serving narcissist like Farage and Trump. Politics attracts them, but they are the worst people to vote for.

[Vassenor]

Odd how we all read people differently. I've always seen George Galloway as a self-serving narcissist like Farage and Trump. Politics attracts them, but they are the worst people to vote for.

Pretty much the only difference is that Galloway is an open stooge for a foreign power rather than a latent stooge.

[Souseiseki]

i have always thought of george galloway as the possibly racist cat man

[Hirota]

Odd how we all read people differently. I've always seen George Galloway as a self-serving narcissist like Farage and Trump. Politics attracts them, but they are the worst people to vote for.

Pretty much the only difference is that Galloway is an open stooge for a foreign power rather than a latent stooge.

Or Jezza, if we really want to go down this path of silly conspiracy theories you seem keen to walk down.

[Vassenor]

Pretty much the only difference is that Galloway is an open stooge for a foreign power rather than a latent stooge.

Or Jezza, if we really want to go down this path of silly conspiracy theories you seem keen to walk down.

Galloway literally had a gig as a pundit on Press TV. That's not a conspiracy theory.