NationStates

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
May hasn't been back to the EU, so it's the same deal. Why would more people vote for it the 4th time around?

Because this time she’s rigged everyone’s chairs with trapdoors that lead to the secret shark pit in the basement!

Even then, at least 350 against

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Regardless, if the UK reenters the EU, it will lose most if not all of the special privileges it currently has (such as having its own currency).

That's exactly why I want Britain to leave. I'm sick of Britain
a) playing special snowflake all the time with opt-outs from anything and their uncle,
b) getting rebates on membership fees while getting full voting rights,
c) playing second fiddle to Uncle Sam and undermining any attempt at further unification.

Britain needs to leave asap, they wanted it and they wasted enough of the Commission's and EP's time. If Ol'Blighty wants to apply again, the queue starts over there, right after Albania and Serbia. No rebates though this time. It's either full commitment to the unification process or just good neighbours.

Fartsniffage wrote:

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Brexit Bill being introduced in early June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827

May hasn't been back to the EU, so it's the same deal. Why would more people vote for it the 4th time around?

Maybe they've forgotten that they rejected it before.
"Oh? New bill? I suppose I'll vote for it"

The question of Deal/No Deal is illogical, because whether there is a deal or not is up to the EU, not the UK. In particular, it is not known whether the EU would approve a deal proposed by a future Labour government.

Esperantujo 2 wrote:The question of Deal/No Deal is illogical, because whether there is a deal or not is up to the EU, not the UK. In particular, it is not known whether the EU would approve a deal proposed by a future Labour government.

The EU are the ones offering us deals, not the other way round. They have rules about what countries have to do to get certain kinds of association with them, it's up to the government to decide how much of it we sign up for.

The most important thing going on in our politics is the crime against Jeremy Kyle.

Fartsniffage wrote:

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Brexit Bill being introduced in early June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827

May hasn't been back to the EU, so it's the same deal. Why would more people vote for it the 4th time around?

I would guess the idea is that the disastrous local and European election results will make both Conservatives and Labour MPs realise they are about to destroy their parties if they don't achieve Brexit.

Personally I don't think it will work. I expect members of ERG to jump ship and join the Brexit Party, leading to the destruction of the Tory Party.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
May hasn't been back to the EU, so it's the same deal. Why would more people vote for it the 4th time around?

I would guess the idea is that the disastrous local and European election results will make both Conservatives and Labour MPs realise they are about to destroy their parties if they don't achieve Brexit.

Personally I don't think it will work. I expect members of ERG to jump ship and join the Brexit Party, leading to the destruction of the Tory Party.

Defections are remarkably rare in british politics.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Defections are remarkably rare in british politics.

And yet we've already seen a bunch. The reason defections are rare is in no small part due to the electoral system's logic. The only way to break out of the tendency towards two-party systems is a genuine paradigm shift. Something that causes either a rift within either party so deep and personal that it collapses as an organisation, or something that drives voters away on such scale that we're talking about shifts in the tens of percents.

Brexit has all the hallmarks of such a shift. And, quite frankly, what exactly does the Conservative Party as an organisation have to say about it? Or, even more importantly, do they have even the slightest idea of what they actually want to achieve with this newfound "independence"? Britain doesn't have Brexit because it doesn't have a Brexit policy, because the Tories don't have a Brexit policy.

Neu Leonstein wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Defections are remarkably rare in british politics.

And yet we've already seen a bunch. The reason defections are rare is in no small part due to the electoral system's logic. The only way to break out of the tendency towards two-party systems is a genuine paradigm shift. Something that causes either a rift within either party so deep and personal that it collapses as an organisation, or something that drives voters away on such scale that we're talking about shifts in the tens of percents.

Brexit has all the hallmarks of such a shift. And, quite frankly, what exactly does the Conservative Party as an organisation have to say about it? Or, even more importantly, do they have even the slightest idea of what they actually want to achieve with this newfound "independence"? Britain doesn't have Brexit because it doesn't have a Brexit policy, because the Tories don't have a Brexit policy.

Nor does labour, so there isn't even an effective opposition to nothing.

A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Nor does labour, so there isn't even an effective opposition to nothing.

That's the reason Brexit became such a mess in the first place. The Tories were and are incompetent and busy with their civil war, yes. But they wouldn't have been able to inflict the damage they did if Labour hadn't helped. And the two are related... I remember listening to British politicians in mid to late 2016 talking with incredible smugness about the way Labour had taken itself out of the equation by electing Corbyn. They were absolutely sure that big Tory majorities would be certain for years and years. That sort of complacency is what made the civil war seem the most important thing in the world.

Anyway, if we get Brexit and a Labour win at the next GE, as seems a pretty good bet, then they'll take themselves apart just the same. A fair chunk of the party won't want to come along Comrade Corbyn's ride towards retaking the commanding heights, and might instead be eyeing off the EEA after all.

Risottia wrote:

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Regardless, if the UK reenters the EU, it will lose most if not all of the special privileges it currently has (such as having its own currency).

That's exactly why I want Britain to leave. I'm sick of Britain
a) playing special snowflake all the time with opt-outs from anything and their uncle,
b) getting rebates on membership fees while getting full voting rights,
c) playing second fiddle to Uncle Sam and undermining any attempt at further unification.

Britain needs to leave asap, they wanted it and they wasted enough of the Commission's and EP's time. If Ol'Blighty wants to apply again, the queue starts over there, right after Albania and Serbia. No rebates though this time. It's either full commitment to the unification process or just good neighbours.

Awwh, come on. Just because someone in the Union has problems or goes through harsh time thats not reason to get rid of them. Visegard states included. And they love the EU.

Oh and the current Government of Romania is doing and pulling way worse shit flying below the radar of media coverage and attention.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

Full story:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-lib-dems

The pro-remain Change UK party has suffered an embarrassing setback in Scotland after its lead candidate in the European elections urged voters to back the Liberal Democrats.

David Macdonald, an independent councillor in East Renfrewshire, said pro-remain voters who also opposed Scottish independence should back the Lib Dems in next week’s vote. He said he would stand down as Change UK’s top candidate.

Macdonald said he believed Change UK was splitting the remain vote, which would allow Nigel Farage’s Brexit party to win one of Scotland’s six European seats unless pro-UK remain voters rallied behind the Liberal Democrats.

“We have a much more diluted remain vote in Scotland and it’s becoming very clear and apparent close to these elections that we’re in grave danger of splitting this vote,” he said, standing alongside the Scottish Lib Dem leader, Willie Rennie.

Given the contents of the CHUK's leaked memo regarding their strategy to replace the LibDems...



... the irony is delicious.

(Note that the memo pre-dates the adoption of the 'Change UK' name; hence the references to TIG/NP ['new party'])

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

lol

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

The real fun will come when one of them defects back to Labour.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

"Worried about splitting the vote" they said, and they are entirely right. There is a real possibility of voters being divided between Change/Lib Dem/Labour/Green/SNP etc that the likes of UKIP and The Brexit Party could win serious numbers of seats.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

lol

Changers become Lib Dems might be not such a bad idea.

The Whigs raise again.

The New California Republic wrote:

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:A Scottish Change UK candidate has defected to the Lib Dems.

"Worried about splitting the vote" they said, and they are entirely right. There is a real possibility of voters being divided between Change/Lib Dem/Labour/Green/SNP etc that the likes of UKIP and The Brexit Party could win serious numbers of seats.

lol, like that's a bad thing

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:"Worried about splitting the vote" they said, and they are entirely right. There is a real possibility of voters being divided between Change/Lib Dem/Labour/Green/SNP etc that the likes of UKIP and The Brexit Party could win serious numbers of seats.

lol, like that's a bad thing

To be honest it won't make the slightest bit of difference, as the elected MEPs will likely only be in the job for a matter of months.

Some Welsh UKIPpers have defected to the Brexit Party. What was that about defections being rare in British politics?

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Some Welsh UKIPpers have defected to the Brexit Party. What was that about defections being rare in British politics?

Normality does not really exist when a party has effectively ceased to be.

All our politicians are defectual right now.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:All our politicians are defectual right now.

Is that a cross between defective and ineffectual?

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Dumb Ideologies wrote:All our politicians are defectual right now.

Is that a cross between defective and ineffectual?

Shush you, it's in the dictionary....just about