UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Ostroeuropa]

as others pointed out, it increases the wages of the rich and depresses the wages of the poor.



Because that would heighten immigration numbers radically and we don't want millions turning up?

If you've secured better working conditions for them, thus voiding your complaint that they would be too tired to seize the means of production, then why not?

Because that's not the only issue and there's cultural ones too? In any case, the point is to tie an immigration cap to better rights for immigration workers in order to force it through.

[Ifreann]

If you've secured better working conditions for them, thus voiding your complaint that they would be too tired to seize the means of production, then why not?

Because that's not the only issue and there's cultural ones too?

That's what I thought.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because that's not the only issue and there's cultural ones too?

That's what I thought.

Yeah, I know that's what you thought.
HeY GuYs If YoU'rE So AgAiNsT CaPitAliSm WhY BuY ThInGs?

But on immigration instead.

[Vassenor]

Because that's not the only issue and there's cultural ones too?

That's what I thought.

Wait, are you suggesting there could be thinly veiled racism against immigrants at play? Get my fainting couch!

[Conserative Morality]

That's what I thought.

Wait, are you suggesting there could be thinly veiled racism against immigrants at play? Get my fainting couch!

"Thinly"

[Ostroeuropa]

That's what I thought.

Wait, are you suggesting there could be thinly veiled racism against immigrants at play? Get my fainting couch!

Supporting higher wages and working conditions for immigrants in the here and now instead of in some hypothetical socialist utopia is racism, peak progressive purism right there. I am also a socialist utopian, but the difference is I don't also up and decide incrementalism is evil.

[Hirota]

Worth adding that the most influencial socialist (and apparent future leader of the country) in the UK literally came out and said wholesale immigration harms the lives of working class people.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... ns-british

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

No, see, the immigrants, they're too exploited to be part of the revolution. The revolution will be prosecuted by those least exploited by capitalism.

What if I told you that global capitalism systematically utilises mass immigration both as a deliberate economic strategy to reduce the bargaining power of workers and as an ideological strategy to divert anger away from the system towards the culturally incompatible people they're continually demanding be brought in, and that pro-immigration advocates are complicit in perpetuating a sociocultural dynamic that inevitably serves to dilute class consciousness and delay socialism in the developed world?

Whether or not this is occurring is up for debate, but suggesting it is deliberate on the parts of world leaders or especially of those advocating for open borders is borderline tinfoil hat talk.

[Dumb Ideologies]

What if I told you that global capitalism systematically utilises mass immigration both as a deliberate economic strategy to reduce the bargaining power of workers and as an ideological strategy to divert anger away from the system towards the culturally incompatible people they're continually demanding be brought in, and that pro-immigration advocates are complicit in perpetuating a sociocultural dynamic that inevitably serves to dilute class consciousness and delay socialism in the developed world?

Whether or not this is occurring is up for debate, but suggesting it is deliberate on the parts of world leaders or especially of those advocating for open borders is borderline tinfoil hat talk.

You don't need groups of men with pinky fingers in their mouths doing evil laughs from their McEvil volcano base for the capitalist elite to be able to collectively and repeatedly push social arrangements that further the interests of capitalism. This is why capitalism is so resilient, why it is able to survive despite its rampant and obvious inequities and injustices.

The ideological apparatuses that broadcast the messages that keep the system going don't need to be controlled by a central cabal. Elites don't need direct central coordination in order to use their resources to act and advocate in their groups' interests. The media, for example, operates in a capitalist environment, and outside of very temporary moments during deep economic and political crises the fundamentals of the current system appear as "natural" to mainstream readerships to the extent that speaking of anything different is "crazy talk". Politicians are pushed to the centre by the logic of the electoral system, by lobbyists, by the media and so on, to the point where non-capitalist choices struggle to get their voice heard and are lambasted from all sides for their "unrealistic" suggestions.

Ideology allows the system and the interests of the capitalist elite to self-perpetuate with no need for Illuminati, lizardmen, or Bond villains pulling the strings. Within a capitalist system, the people pull their own strings as much as they're pulled by others; media, politicians and even peer pressure; (see the airbrushed, glamourised "dream lives" people share on social media for other people in turn to aspire to) all help to keep the ideological wheels of capitalism turning.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ballymurphy: Former soldier says discipline of Army prevented more deaths


"Mr Gow told the inquest: "The people of west Belfast should be thankful that it was the discipline of the British Army or the death toll could've been much higher."

You should be thankful we decided to only murder some of you, another army might have killed more.

Fuck off you son of a whore.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Whether or not this is occurring is up for debate, but suggesting it is deliberate on the parts of world leaders or especially of those advocating for open borders is borderline tinfoil hat talk.

You don't need groups of men with pinky fingers in their mouths doing evil laughs from their McEvil volcano base for the capitalist elite to be able to collectively and repeatedly push social arrangements that further the interests of capitalism. This is why capitalism is so resilient, why it is able to survive despite its rampant and obvious inequities and injustices.

The ideological apparatuses that broadcast the messages that keep the system going don't need to be controlled by a central cabal. Elites don't need direct central coordination in order to use their resources to act and advocate in their groups' interests. The media, for example, operates in a capitalist environment, and outside of very temporary moments during deep economic and political crises the fundamentals of the current system appear as "natural" to mainstream readerships to the extent that speaking of anything different is "crazy talk". Politicians are pushed to the centre by the logic of the electoral system, by lobbyists, by the media and so on, to the point where non-capitalist choices struggle to get their voice heard and are lambasted from all sides for their "unrealistic" suggestions.

Ideology allows the system and the interests of the capitalist elite to self-perpetuate with no need for Illuminati, lizardmen, or Bond villains pulling the strings. Within a capitalist system, the people pull their own strings as much as they're pulled by others; media, politicians and even peer pressure; (see the airbrushed, glamourised "dream lives" people share on social media for other people in turn to aspire to) all help to keep the ideological wheels of capitalism turning.

Yes, there are plenty of lobbyists and corrupt billionaires eager to preserve capitalism by any means necessary, but I sincerely doubt that it is them that are pulling the strings behind pro-immigration advocates or pulling the strings behind pro-immigration government initiatives. Governments allowing in migrants to perform cheap labour certainly isn't unheard of, but I don't think it's the driving force behind open borders advocates.

Indeed, capitalism is a self-perpetuating system whose internal logic allows it to very easily shroud the overton window in its folds. When the status quo is about profit, supporting the status quo is profitable. But it's open to interpretation how much of this is due to sinister forces and how much it's just due to capitalism being a decent system that's easy to maintain. At any rate, hopefully the greater openness that new media provides allows for an expanded overton window so that ideas can win on their merit, rather than on their proximity to the status quo as is too often the case.

Indeed, liberal capitalism, rather than perpetuating by silencing its detractors by sword, simply silences its critics by drowning them out by rendering illiberal ideas too unprofitable and unpopular. That said, nobody really likes the "dream lives" people from what I've seen. I guess in that respect, liberal capitalism is more like Brave New World, and more authoritarian systems are more like 1984. That's a depressing thought. On the upside, I'd rather live in Brave New World than in 1984.

[Phoenicaea]

^ said 'populists', or whatever, in mediterranean and levantine countries don t pursue the decrease of immigrants, or the betterment of immigrants skills and habits either.

'populist parties' or whatever, aim merely to decrease immigrants pay. instead, within this, the aim is immigrants to be less skilled, 'less developed' production, whose gains preferred.

it is rather the opposite. they are populists and 'low degree' parties that get supported by great short-sighted 'interests' and by subsidized banks, at least in these countries.

the pay of the resident workers has got tendency to be lower, in this way of course, still mainly because the country has to be less developed. less skills, bring lower value products.

[The New California Republic]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

A man has tried to throw a milkshake at UKIP Euro election candidate Carl Benjamin at a rally in Cornwall.

Mr Benjamin is holding a gathering on Lemon Quay in Truro with British activist Milo Yiannopoulos.

Supporters of Mr Benjamin pulled the man to the ground after he threw the milkshake.

It is understood police were called to the incident. A female protester was also prevented from throwing kippers at Mr Benjamin.

The man who threw the milkshake was later seen walking away.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-48230438

[Ifreann]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

A man has tried to throw a milkshake at UKIP Euro election candidate Carl Benjamin at a rally in Cornwall.

Mr Benjamin is holding a gathering on Lemon Quay in Truro with British activist Milo Yiannopoulos.

Supporters of Mr Benjamin pulled the man to the ground after he threw the milkshake.

It is understood police were called to the incident. A female protester was also prevented from throwing kippers at Mr Benjamin.

The man who threw the milkshake was later seen walking away.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-48230438

He missed? Shame.

[Andsed]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

A man has tried to throw a milkshake at UKIP Euro election candidate Carl Benjamin at a rally in Cornwall.

Mr Benjamin is holding a gathering on Lemon Quay in Truro with British activist Milo Yiannopoulos.

Supporters of Mr Benjamin pulled the man to the ground after he threw the milkshake.

It is understood police were called to the incident. A female protester was also prevented from throwing kippers at Mr Benjamin.

The man who threw the milkshake was later seen walking away.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-48230438

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

[Vassenor]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

Oh yes, the whole "we have to be tolerant of their intolerance" spiel.

[The New California Republic]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

He missed? Shame.

I would have found it more amusing if one of the kippers had been on target. That shit would be my desktop image for weeks.

[Ifreann]

Someone tried to throw their milkshake on Sargon ( ):

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

Why? It's a very clear message of disapproval, and recently has been A Thing after Stephen "Tommy Robinson" Yaxley-Lennon got two milkshakes thrown on him in as many days.

[Andsed]

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

Oh yes, the whole "we have to be tolerant of their intolerance" spiel.

Ah yes the “let’s throw shit and act like rowdy school children” bullshit you and others seem to think is a good way of dealing with disagreement.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Milkshake missed hoi polloi in the yard. Tried kippers, access was barred.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You drink your milkshakes, not throw them.


Waste.

[Ostroeuropa]

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

Why? It's a very clear message of disapproval, and recently has been A Thing after Stephen "Tommy Robinson" Yaxley-Lennon got two milkshakes thrown on him in as many days.

Jokes = Bad way of expressing disapproval

Assault = Fine

Gotcha.

[Andsed]

Honestly I don’t like Carl like at all. But the guy who through that milkshake should honestly revalute how he expresse his political beliefs.

Why? It's a very clear message of disapproval, and recently has been A Thing after Stephen "Tommy Robinson" Yaxley-Lennon got two milkshakes thrown on him in as many days.

If you can’t see the issue with throwing stuff and acting like angry school children to those you happen to disagree with than I cannot help you. Hint: doing this solves fucking nothing and reniforces the stereotype of liberals being triggers SJW’s

[The Huskar Social Union]

Milkshake missed hoi polloi in the yard. Tried kippers, access was barred.

lol fucking clever

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I'm not in favour of people throwing things at politicians.