UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Duhon]

Every British politician not openly advocating for curbstomping Brexit, flushing the remains down the sewers and out the Thames into the Atlantic, and maybe declaring a spanking-new Cameron Effigy day in celebration is in fact trash.

No one's gonna change my mind on this (except the Guy Fawkes ripoff, that can be negotiated).

Why don't you want Brexit to happen then?

It's a disaster waiting to happen, no matter how you look at it: UK-EU relations, UK-Eire relations, UK-US relations, socially, economically, and so on -- and all for this mythical "sovereignty" virus that has latched on a significant few Western countries (and a bit more less significant ones) -- as if Britain can survive wearing John Bull's tatters for long, unassisted.

[Vassenor]

Four security alerts in #Derry today. In Creggan a device has been left outside Councillor Gary Donnelly’s home. Another device outside a home in Hardy Court in Ballymagroarty. Strand Road Police Station is also cordoned off as police examine a car. Fourth alert in Moss Park

[Duhon]

Four security alerts in #Derry today. In Creggan a device has been left outside Councillor Gary Donnelly’s home. Another device outside a home in Hardy Court in Ballymagroarty. Strand Road Police Station is also cordoned off as police examine a car. Fourth alert in Moss Park

Bloody frothing fountain of curses --

[Dumb Ideologies]

So why is multiculturalism bad today?

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country, and are ill-equipped to interact with wider society. You send your children to a school for your group which uses your group's language, and teaches that mainstream society is sinful and debauched. They come out with less than fluent English, their opportunities are limited, you arrange for them to marry someone within your circle, they work within that community and then they have children and do the same thing. The internal logic of multiculturalism is to set cultures in amber by setting them on oppositional terms, and by inculcating an antipathy and aversion towards the host culture that will ensure they keep the minority culture "pure"; that chasing of purity leads to ever more conservative versions of the culture's norms. This is terrible for social cohesion and breeds resentment in both the minority and majority group, which can be exploited on both sides by radical groups to further destabilise society.

[Duhon]

So why is multiculturalism bad today?

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country, and are ill-equipped to interact with wider society. You send your children to a school for your group which uses your group's language, and teaches that mainstream society is sinful and debauched. They come out with less than fluent English, their opportunities are limited, you arrange for them to marry someone within your circle, they work within that community and then they have children and do the same thing. The internal logic of multiculturalism is to set cultures in amber by setting them on oppositional terms, and by inculcating an antipathy and aversion towards the host culture that will ensure they keep the minority culture "pure"; that chasing of purity leads to ever more conservative versions of the culture's norms. This is terrible for social cohesion and breeds resentment in both the minority and majority group, which can be exploited on both sides by radical groups to further destabilise society.

-- so the United States, except that worked out in the long-term, despite the low-key (and sometimes not-so-low-key) hostility of the hosts -- and the inward-looking tendencies of a good number of the very many ethnicities and nationalities that called the United States their home.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country, and are ill-equipped to interact with wider society. You send your children to a school for your group which uses your group's language, and teaches that mainstream society is sinful and debauched. They come out with less than fluent English, their opportunities are limited, you arrange for them to marry someone within your circle, they work within that community and then they have children and do the same thing. The internal logic of multiculturalism is to set cultures in amber by setting them on oppositional terms, and by inculcating an antipathy and aversion towards the host culture that will ensure they keep the minority culture "pure"; that chasing of purity leads to ever more conservative versions of the culture's norms. This is terrible for social cohesion and breeds resentment in both the minority and majority group, which can be exploited on both sides by radical groups to further destabilise society.

-- so the United States, except that worked out in the long-term, despite the low-key (and sometimes not-so-low-key) hostility of the hosts -- and the inward-looking tendencies of a good number of the very many ethnicities and nationalities that called the United States their home.

The US has historically done a much better job of integrating minorities. American Muslims are much more tolerant and outward looking than European, and particularly, British communities. Whether that's something about America's patriotism, the effectiveness of the "American dream" ideology, the particular groups allowed to immigrate or even about the geography of the place is a question that's very interesting.

[Vassenor]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

[Dumb Ideologies]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

Yes, Vass, that's exactly what it is. Very well done for putting a whole ten seconds worth of non-effort into that post, do you want a biscuit?

[The Huskar Social Union]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

Yes, Vass, that's exactly what it is. Very well done for putting a whole ten seconds worth of non-effort into that post, do you want a biscuit?

Oh oh can i have one!?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Yes, Vass, that's exactly what it is. Very well done for putting a whole ten seconds worth of non-effort into that post, do you want a biscuit?

Oh oh can i have one!?

You've been a very good non-baity boy for many years, of course you can. Chocolate digestive, custard cream or bourbon? Sadly I do not have jaffa cakes because they're an abomination that must be destroyed.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Oh oh can i have one!?

You've been a very good non-baity boy for many years, of course you can. Chocolate digestive, custard cream or bourbon? Sadly I do not have jaffa cakes because they're an abomination that must be destroyed.

Fucking chocolate digestive obviously, the superior of the three.

Wrong about the Jaffa though.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Oh oh can i have one!?

You've been a very good non-baity boy for many years, of course you can. Chocolate digestive, custard cream or bourbon? Sadly I do not have jaffa cakes because they're an abomination that must be destroyed.

Bourbons? Disgusting French name. Why can't they be called Windsors?

[Dumb Ideologies]

You've been a very good non-baity boy for many years, of course you can. Chocolate digestive, custard cream or bourbon? Sadly I do not have jaffa cakes because they're an abomination that must be destroyed.

Bourbons? Disgusting French name. Why can't they be called Windsors?

I'm handing myself in to the authorities.

[Phoenicaea]

So why is multiculturalism bad today?

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country..

the reason for this is not good argument, this stated sentence (which reflects common argument, so i ll permit myself to pick it).

you have three, at very least, devious or indirect references, here, each one made upon the previous.

the multiculturalism would 'encourage', so not cause something directly, admittedly, instead beenig an ingredient, favouring some 'process'.

then it would not 'favour', given also other meanwhile unspecified conditions, a proper thing. it instead would favour a 'process', a development, of what: of a society.

a society within a society, ambiguos and vague concept itself (society a very theoretical concept). you have got three indirect references, each one made of undefined concepts.

i wrote this because of reason why mass media propaganda has not mind value, as a method. i d say: media regime 'encourages' (this once, a well said thing) words without meaning.

*edited

[Dumb Ideologies]

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country..

the reason for this is not good argument, this stated sentence (which reflects common argument, so i ll permit myself to pick it).

you have three, at very least, devious or indirect references, here, each one made upon the previous.

the multiculturalism would 'encourage', so not cause something directly, admittedly, instead beenig an ingredient, favouring some 'process'.

the it would not 'favour', given other unspecified conditions, a proper thing, instead would favour a 'process', a development, of what: of a society.

a society within a society, an ambiguos and vague concept itself. so you have got three indirect references, each one containing undefined concepts.

i wrote this because this is method reason why mass media propaganda has not mind value, as a method, media regime 'encourages' (this once, a well said thing) words without meaning.

Talking about words without meaning...that salad was delicious.

[Philjia]

Desegregate the schools.

[Ostroeuropa]

Desegregate the schools.

A good start but we need to go further and raise the baseline quality of immigrant we're getting by making the fundamentalists not want to move here.

Ban circumcision, gender segregation, religious schooling, and school segregation.

Overhaul Religious education to include criticism of each religions claims by other religious figures and atheists to provide actual understanding of the ideas rather than merely "what they believe", these skills are also important and transferable. Include literary criticism of religious texts as works of literature likewise.

Remove all laws providing religious exemptions for prohibited behaviors, including halal and kosher slaughter. If they throw a fit, tell them to go vegetarian. "We're not forcing you to eat sinful meat, we're forcing you not to torture animals."

Institute de-ghettoization financial schemes.

Remove religious offensiveness laws and policies from government institutions.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Desegregate the schools.

A good start but we need to go further and raise the baseline quality of immigrant we're getting by making the fundamentalists not want to move here.

Ban circumcision, gender segregation, religious schooling, and school segregation.

Overhaul Religious education to include criticism of each religions claims by other religious figures and atheists to provide actual understanding of the ideas rather than merely "what they believe", these skills are also important and transferable. Include literary criticism of religious texts as works of literature likewise.

Remove all laws providing religious exemptions for prohibited behaviors, including halal and kosher slaughter. If they throw a fit, tell them to go vegetarian. "We're not forcing you to eat sinful meat, we're forcing you not to torture animals."

Institute de-ghettoization financial schemes.

Remove religious offensiveness laws and policies from government institutions.

Can agree 100 % with this.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Desegregate the schools.

A good start but we need to go further and raise the baseline quality of immigrant we're getting by making the fundamentalists not want to move here.

Ban circumcision, gender segregation, religious schooling, and school segregation.

Overhaul Religious education to include criticism of each religions claims by other religious figures and atheists to provide actual understanding of the ideas rather than merely "what they believe", these skills are also important and transferable. Include literary criticism of religious texts as works of literature likewise.

Remove all laws providing religious exemptions for prohibited behaviors, including halal and kosher slaughter. If they throw a fit, tell them to go vegetarian. "We're not forcing you to eat sinful meat, we're forcing you not to torture animals."

Institute de-ghettoization financial schemes.

Remove religious offensiveness laws and policies from government institutions.

This was a huge chunk of the mark scheme when I was doing my RE GCSE. Maybe other boards did it differently, though.

[Ostroeuropa]

A good start but we need to go further and raise the baseline quality of immigrant we're getting by making the fundamentalists not want to move here.

Ban circumcision, gender segregation, religious schooling, and school segregation.

Overhaul Religious education to include criticism of each religions claims by other religious figures and atheists to provide actual understanding of the ideas rather than merely "what they believe", these skills are also important and transferable. Include literary criticism of religious texts as works of literature likewise.

Remove all laws providing religious exemptions for prohibited behaviors, including halal and kosher slaughter. If they throw a fit, tell them to go vegetarian. "We're not forcing you to eat sinful meat, we're forcing you not to torture animals."

Institute de-ghettoization financial schemes.

Remove religious offensiveness laws and policies from government institutions.

This was a huge chunk of the mark scheme when I was doing my RE GCSE. Maybe other boards did it differently, though.

Maybe it's been a while, or maybe my teacher was just shit, but ours revolved around;

"Muh tolerance. Learn what other religions believe to dispel myths about them." and more about applying religions as a lens than criticizing those lenses, like;

"How would a Christian view subject X"? Which is a really shit way to teach the subject even if "Dispelling myths and promoting tolerance" is your goal, because it tended toward literalism.

So our mark scheme for "Demonstrate understanding" was more "Apply" than "Critique.". My guess is we had a different exam board.

[Novus America]

The same reason that it's always been bad, it encourages the development of insular "societies within a society" who cling to the ways of the old country, and are ill-equipped to interact with wider society. You send your children to a school for your group which uses your group's language, and teaches that mainstream society is sinful and debauched. They come out with less than fluent English, their opportunities are limited, you arrange for them to marry someone within your circle, they work within that community and then they have children and do the same thing. The internal logic of multiculturalism is to set cultures in amber by setting them on oppositional terms, and by inculcating an antipathy and aversion towards the host culture that will ensure they keep the minority culture "pure"; that chasing of purity leads to ever more conservative versions of the culture's norms. This is terrible for social cohesion and breeds resentment in both the minority and majority group, which can be exploited on both sides by radical groups to further destabilise society.

-- so the United States, except that worked out in the long-term, despite the low-key (and sometimes not-so-low-key) hostility of the hosts -- and the inward-looking tendencies of a good number of the very many ethnicities and nationalities that called the United States their home.

The United States historically promoted assimilationism over multiculturalism.
So quite the opposite really.

And were we had segregated immigrants ghettos these were the most part a disaster.

[Novus America]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

Not everything. The way Americans assimilation usually worked (and still does to some degree) was basically something like the supremacy clause applied to culture.
That is you can keep the non conflicting parts, but not conflicting parts.
Want to open a Pakistani style restaurant. Cool.
Want Sharia law? Not cool.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

Not everything. The way Americans assimilation usually worked (and still does to some degree) was basically something like the supremacy clause applied to culture.
That is you can keep the non conflicting parts, but not conflicting parts.
Want to open a Pakistani style restaurant. Cool.
Want Sharia law? Not cool.

The fear of sharia law is unfounded to the degree that it cannot have a place in any serious debate.

[Novus America]

Not everything. The way Americans assimilation usually worked (and still does to some degree) was basically something like the supremacy clause applied to culture.
That is you can keep the non conflicting parts, but not conflicting parts.
Want to open a Pakistani style restaurant. Cool.
Want Sharia law? Not cool.

The fear of sharia law is unfounded to the degree that it cannot have a place in any serious debate.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861 ... ims-survey
Hiding you head in the sand does not make a problem go away.

[Vassenor]

So the usual "they refuse to give up everything that makes them unique and be exactly like us and our inherent superiority" #notracismbut.

Not everything. The way Americans assimilation usually worked (and still does to some degree) was basically something like the supremacy clause applied to culture.
That is you can keep the non conflicting parts, but not conflicting parts.
Want to open a Pakistani style restaurant. Cool.
Want Sharia law? Not cool.

So who is actually advocating for Sharia Law in place of British law?