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UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who is your preferred Conservative Party leadership candidate?

Gove
5
4%
Hunt
11
9%
Javid
5
4%
Johnson
37
31%
Raab
11
9%
Stewart
50
42%
 
Total votes : 119

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 158977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:47 pm

Hardholm wrote:*the Left beating a drum*

"Just. Keep. Voting. Til. We. Get. The. Correct. Response."

Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57844
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I didn't realize the effect was so pronounced as to make politics feel kind of pointless. 10% is a huge amount.


Just remember the bananas. Then you'll understand.


I recently saw 'The Philosophy of Anime' and 'The Pipe Strip.' and i'm starting to suspect most of society is bullshit. My Discordian tendencies flaring up again.

People were bored and wanted to do something, so they did Brexit. There's nothing more to it. And it provided years of entertainment.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:49 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Hardholm wrote:*the Left beating a drum*

"Just. Keep. Voting. Til. We. Get. The. Correct. Response."

Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


He unironically used cuck in a sentence, so it's that side of the ideological spectrum.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:50 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Heloin wrote:I don't understand the opinion that a 2nd referendum is impossible or in some way going against public will. The call for a referendum now is more popular now then the call for the call for the first referendum ever was in the first place.


A hypothetical second referendum wouldn't have the popular mandate because the only popular will is the will that the Tories agree with.

Public support is against any deal the government has come up with, petitions for revoking Article 50 or calling a second referendum are largest in UK history, one of the largest public demonstration in recent British history is one calling for a 2nd referendum.

Tories - "It's the people's will to leave the EU."

User avatar
Hardholm
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Mar 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardholm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:50 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Hardholm wrote:*the Left beating a drum*

"Just. Keep. Voting. Til. We. Get. The. Correct. Response."

Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.
Name: The Free Land of Hardholm
Government Type: Stratocratic Republic
Era: Medieval High Fantasy
Anthem: Deep Roots
Pro: Cultural Nationalism, Traditionalism, Reactionary, Stratocracy, Theonomy, Hobbes
Neutral: Monarchy, Distributism, Economic Liberalism, Dominionism, Fascism, Israel
Anti: Leftism, Anarchism, Secularism, Islamism, Racialism, Theocracy, Democracy

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7

Politiscales
https://imgur.com/GvnTatV

8values
https://imgur.com/3Xt7VmB
Wiki | Leader | Signature Banner | Anthem
I will not discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in bad faith
I will take as much time as I can to discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in good faith

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:51 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.

Reminds me of the stupid argument that comes up every other day about how America's left are actually the ultra far right or something of that affect.

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19622
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Hardholm wrote:*the Left beating a drum*

"Just. Keep. Voting. Til. We. Get. The. Correct. Response."

Nevermind that "revoke article 50 without a referendum" is literally the second most voted response, and I have no doubt that a second "Leave" response wouldn't satiate any of those desperate to cuck themselves to a globalist agenda.


lol literally every single possible option has been voted down by parliament at least once

Hardholm wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.


tell me about her policies and record in office
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41244
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.


But she is in Europe. So she is on the right. What is your point?

User avatar
Hardholm
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Mar 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardholm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:54 pm

Heloin wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
A hypothetical second referendum wouldn't have the popular mandate because the only popular will is the will that the Tories agree with.

Public support is against any deal the government has come up with, petitions for revoking Article 50 or calling a second referendum are largest in UK history, one of the largest public demonstration in recent British history is one calling for a 2nd referendum.

Tories - "It's the people's will to leave the EU."


The people definetly haven't been under a 24/7/365 propaganda siege from Brussels and the msm to try anf frighten them into remaining in the status quo. No way!
Name: The Free Land of Hardholm
Government Type: Stratocratic Republic
Era: Medieval High Fantasy
Anthem: Deep Roots
Pro: Cultural Nationalism, Traditionalism, Reactionary, Stratocracy, Theonomy, Hobbes
Neutral: Monarchy, Distributism, Economic Liberalism, Dominionism, Fascism, Israel
Anti: Leftism, Anarchism, Secularism, Islamism, Racialism, Theocracy, Democracy

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7

Politiscales
https://imgur.com/GvnTatV

8values
https://imgur.com/3Xt7VmB
Wiki | Leader | Signature Banner | Anthem
I will not discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in bad faith
I will take as much time as I can to discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in good faith

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:54 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Hardholm wrote:Lol @ the poll results

"Just keep voting until you get the right result!"

Democracy at work, as per usual.


Just like May's deal.

The whole ideal of the referendum is giving the people control over political processes. After the original vote to leave, the people were never again consulted on where to take Brexit, either through a general election or referendum.


The point is they would not know. The people are just as silly as their Parliament.
Last edited by Novus America on Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41244
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:55 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Heloin wrote:Public support is against any deal the government has come up with, petitions for revoking Article 50 or calling a second referendum are largest in UK history, one of the largest public demonstration in recent British history is one calling for a 2nd referendum.

Tories - "It's the people's will to leave the EU."


The people definetly haven't been under a 24/7/365 propaganda siege from Brussels and the msm to try anf frighten them into remaining in the status quo. No way!


The MSM in the UK have been very pro-Brexit. You know that, right?

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57844
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:55 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Hardholm wrote:*the Left beating a drum*

"Just. Keep. Voting. Til. We. Get. The. Correct. Response."

Nevermind that "revoke article 50 without a referendum" is literally the second most voted response, and I have no doubt that a second "Leave" response wouldn't satiate any of those desperate to cuck themselves to a globalist agenda.


lol literally every single possible option has been voted down by parliament at least once

Hardholm wrote:
Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.


tell me about her policies and record in office


It's not Parliaments fault, it is the Conservative party.

200 of their MPs have voted against every single possible option (INCLUDING no deal), ensuring perpetual deadlock and crashing out unless like 80% of the rest of parliament can agree on something.
The MPs who voted against every single option come exclusively from the Conservative party, the DUP, and one or two Labour MPs.

66% of the Conservative party is fucking everything up and making the parliament, and the country, look like twats. And Because May and the media are biased in favor of the Tories, they're pretending it's parliament doing that, not just the Conservative party.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19622
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:56 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Heloin wrote:Public support is against any deal the government has come up with, petitions for revoking Article 50 or calling a second referendum are largest in UK history, one of the largest public demonstration in recent British history is one calling for a 2nd referendum.

Tories - "It's the people's will to leave the EU."


The people definetly haven't been under a 24/7/365 propaganda siege from Brussels and the msm to try anf frighten them into remaining in the status quo. No way!


"msm" is meaningless. the two biggest newspapers in the UK are hard leave. one of the primary drivers of brexit was msm misinformation about the EU to begin with.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24941
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Hardholm wrote:
The people definetly haven't been under a 24/7/365 propaganda siege from Brussels and the msm to try anf frighten them into remaining in the status quo. No way!


"msm" is meaningless. the two biggest newspapers in the UK are hard leave. one of the primary drivers of brexit was msm misinformation about the EU to begin with.

It's almost as if this member of the American right is refusing to make themselves informed on this issue.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Novus America wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Just like May's deal.

The whole ideal of the referendum is giving the people control over political processes. After the original vote to leave, the people were never again consulted on where to take Brexit, either through a general election or referendum.


They point is they would not know. The people are just as silly as their Parliament.


I've a sneaking suspicion they'd at least vote to can the current majority in Parliament, at least.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Hardholm
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Mar 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardholm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Hardholm wrote:
The people definetly haven't been under a 24/7/365 propaganda siege from Brussels and the msm to try anf frighten them into remaining in the status quo. No way!


The MSM in the UK have been very pro-Brexit. You know that, right?


Who would just go on the internet and lie?
Name: The Free Land of Hardholm
Government Type: Stratocratic Republic
Era: Medieval High Fantasy
Anthem: Deep Roots
Pro: Cultural Nationalism, Traditionalism, Reactionary, Stratocracy, Theonomy, Hobbes
Neutral: Monarchy, Distributism, Economic Liberalism, Dominionism, Fascism, Israel
Anti: Leftism, Anarchism, Secularism, Islamism, Racialism, Theocracy, Democracy

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7

Politiscales
https://imgur.com/GvnTatV

8values
https://imgur.com/3Xt7VmB
Wiki | Leader | Signature Banner | Anthem
I will not discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in bad faith
I will take as much time as I can to discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in good faith

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24941
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:01 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
The MSM in the UK have been very pro-Brexit. You know that, right?


Who would just go on the internet and lie?

Have you been looking at Daily Mail's front pages lately?

User avatar
Hardholm
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Mar 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardholm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:01 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
lol literally every single possible option has been voted down by parliament at least once



tell me about her policies and record in office


It's not Parliaments fault, it is the Conservative party.

200 of their MPs have voted against every single possible option (INCLUDING no deal), ensuring perpetual deadlock and crashing out unless like 80% of the rest of parliament can agree on something.
The MPs who voted against every single option come exclusively from the Conservative party, the DUP, and one or two Labour MPs.

66% of the Conservative party is fucking everything up and making the parliament, and the country, look like twats. And Because May and the media are biased in favor of the Tories, they're pretending it's parliament doing that, not just the Conservative party.


Literally this.
Name: The Free Land of Hardholm
Government Type: Stratocratic Republic
Era: Medieval High Fantasy
Anthem: Deep Roots
Pro: Cultural Nationalism, Traditionalism, Reactionary, Stratocracy, Theonomy, Hobbes
Neutral: Monarchy, Distributism, Economic Liberalism, Dominionism, Fascism, Israel
Anti: Leftism, Anarchism, Secularism, Islamism, Racialism, Theocracy, Democracy

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7

Politiscales
https://imgur.com/GvnTatV

8values
https://imgur.com/3Xt7VmB
Wiki | Leader | Signature Banner | Anthem
I will not discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in bad faith
I will take as much time as I can to discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in good faith

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19622
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
The MSM in the UK have been very pro-Brexit. You know that, right?


Who would just go on the internet and lie?


is this a lowkey "i was just pretending to not know anything all along" or are you legitimately unaware of the editorial stances of UK media?
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 158977
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Just remember the bananas. Then you'll understand.


I recently saw 'The Philosophy of Anime' and 'The Pipe Strip.' and i'm starting to suspect most of society is bullshit. My Discordian tendencies flaring up again.

People were bored and wanted to do something, so they did Brexit. There's nothing more to it. And it provided years of entertainment.

Animus
Anima
Anime


Hardholm wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?


Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.

I didn't ask "Where are you that Theresa May is not a rightist?", I asked "Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?"

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
The MSM in the UK have been very pro-Brexit. You know that, right?


Who would just go on the internet and lie?

You've not been using the internet for very long.

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57844
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:04 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I recently saw 'The Philosophy of Anime' and 'The Pipe Strip.' and i'm starting to suspect most of society is bullshit. My Discordian tendencies flaring up again.

People were bored and wanted to do something, so they did Brexit. There's nothing more to it. And it provided years of entertainment.

Animus
Anima
Anime


Hardholm wrote:
Literally anywhere on earth other than Europe she's not a rightist.

I didn't ask "Where are you that Theresa May is not a rightist?", I asked "Where are you that Theresa May is the Left?"


Are bananas the panty shot of Brexit?

Wait.

It's that fucking Bus isn't it.

THAT is the panty shot of Brexit. The one image that sums it all up and connects to all its themes and concepts, that everything revolves around, and so on.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24941
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:04 pm

TIL the last few Tory govts in Britain, with its neoliberalism, its reaganomics, its austerity is actually socialist. Who would've thought?

User avatar
Hardholm
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Mar 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardholm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:06 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Hardholm wrote:
Who would just go on the internet and lie?


is this a lowkey "i was just pretending to not know anything all along" or are you legitimately unaware of the editorial stances of UK media?


No I'm highkey telling you that international media is very pro stay
Name: The Free Land of Hardholm
Government Type: Stratocratic Republic
Era: Medieval High Fantasy
Anthem: Deep Roots
Pro: Cultural Nationalism, Traditionalism, Reactionary, Stratocracy, Theonomy, Hobbes
Neutral: Monarchy, Distributism, Economic Liberalism, Dominionism, Fascism, Israel
Anti: Leftism, Anarchism, Secularism, Islamism, Racialism, Theocracy, Democracy

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7

Politiscales
https://imgur.com/GvnTatV

8values
https://imgur.com/3Xt7VmB
Wiki | Leader | Signature Banner | Anthem
I will not discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in bad faith
I will take as much time as I can to discuss my beliefs with someone who inquires in good faith

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19622
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:08 pm

Hardholm wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
is this a lowkey "i was just pretending to not know anything all along" or are you legitimately unaware of the editorial stances of UK media?


No I'm highkey telling you that international media is very pro stay


well that's nice for them but i fail to see what the international media has to do with what the people of the UK who are consuming predominantly UK media are seeing
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

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