UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[The Huskar Social Union]

Not really, remain has already lost. The choice now is between two different forms of Brexit.

Did all the remain voters suddenly disappear? If you want to make arguments based on public opinion for any of the options available then remain would win hands down because they all held a single opinion and not the split opinions in the leave camp.

*looks at hands and screams as he turns to ash*

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Not really, remain has already lost. The choice now is between two different forms of Brexit.

Did all the remain voters suddenly disappear? If you want to make arguments based on public opinion for any of the options available then remain would win hands down because they all held a single opinion and not the split opinions in the leave camp.

There is no repechage when it comes to democratic votes, or wildcards, or lucky loser entries. No playoffs either. It's a straight knockout tournament, leave defeated remain, even if the result was 6-5, it's out of the tournament.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

you cannot just fucking ignore 48% of the country btw

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

[Fartsniffage]

Did all the remain voters suddenly disappear? If you want to make arguments based on public opinion for any of the options available then remain would win hands down because they all held a single opinion and not the split opinions in the leave camp.

*looks at hands and screams as he turns to ash*

Avengers Endgame is just a 3 hour movie of Captain Britain negotiating with the EU....

[Greater vakolicci haven]

you cannot just fucking ignore 48% of the country btw

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

It's likely we'd be continuing on as usual.

[Fartsniffage]

Did all the remain voters suddenly disappear? If you want to make arguments based on public opinion for any of the options available then remain would win hands down because they all held a single opinion and not the split opinions in the leave camp.

There is no repechage when it comes to democratic votes, or wildcards, or lucky loser entries. No playoffs either. It's a straight knockout tournament, leave defeated remain, even if the result was 6-5, it's out of the tournament.

Which is of course why the Labour party currently can't vote in Parliament. The Torys won a democratic election and second place gets no say at all going forwards.

Would you just listen to yourself for a minute?

[Shrillland]

you cannot just fucking ignore 48% of the country btw

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

I believe it was just answered tonight when the customs union was rejected by just three votes and could potentially be approved on Wednesday.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There is no repechage when it comes to democratic votes, or wildcards, or lucky loser entries. No playoffs either. It's a straight knockout tournament, leave defeated remain, even if the result was 6-5, it's out of the tournament.

Which is of course why the Labour party currently can't vote in Parliament. The Torys won a democratic election and second place gets no say at all going forwards.

Would you just listen to yourself for a minute?

It's more like how the labour candidate for Edinburgh North and Leith can't vote in the commons. If you think about parliamentary elections as what they really are supposed to be (elections for your seat), what I said applies to them also.

[Fartsniffage]

you cannot just fucking ignore 48% of the country btw

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

The Tory party would have continued to lose voters to UKIP and at some point in the future it's likely there would have been a second referendum, barring the chance that the UK negotiated another snowflake deal with the EU to appease the leave voters.

[Alyakia]

you cannot just fucking ignore 48% of the country btw

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

we've covered this before. it doesn't matter because even if the remainers are evil bastards that would have completely ignored you, the practical fact of the matter is that your side is too fragmented to build a consensus and is dependent on remain cooperation to get anything done. in that light, this is just a thought experiment by no dealers to justify why it's perfectly acceptable them to catapult towards something that most people do not want by refusing to actually solve the brexit deadlock because they are the sole party that benefits most from leaving it unsolved.

e: look at the welsh devolution referendum for an example of people winning then not completely fucking up and alienating their opponents. you can get big changes done well with a narrow majority, you just fucked it up.

[Greater Loegria]

Imagine if we voted to remain but parliament decided to leave.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

The Tory party would have continued to lose voters to UKIP and at some point in the future it's likely there would have been a second referendum, barring the chance that the UK negotiated another snowflake deal with the EU to appease the leave voters.

It seems more likely, given how close the result of the last election was, that if the tory party lost a good deal of voters to ukip labour would be in power.

[Fartsniffage]

Which is of course why the Labour party currently can't vote in Parliament. The Torys won a democratic election and second place gets no say at all going forwards.

Would you just listen to yourself for a minute?

It's more like how the labour candidate for Edinburgh North and Leith can't vote in the commons. If you think about parliamentary elections as what they really are supposed to be (elections for your seat), what I said applies to them also.

The referendum was a national, not local vote. Also, local elections are binding, national referenda are not.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

yes you can

i mean, what kind of brexit would we get as a compromise to the 48% of leavers if leave lost?

would we leave for customs union? would we leave the single market? what kind of leave would we get so that we don't ignore half the country? i'd like to know, this has never been answered.

we've covered this before. it doesn't matter because even if the remainers are evil bastards that would have completely ignored you, the practical fact of the matter is that your side is too fragmented to build a consensus and is dependent on remain cooperation to get anything done. in that light, this is just a thought experiment by no dealers to justify why it's perfectly acceptable them to catapult towards something that most people do not want by refusing to actually solve the brexit deadlock because they are the sole party that benefits most from leaving it unsolved.

It's not too fragmented, it's just not well-placed. Doesn't have enough members amongst the metropolitans.
That, and the fact that the remainers don't seem to want to respect the fact that they lost.

[Fartsniffage]

The Tory party would have continued to lose voters to UKIP and at some point in the future it's likely there would have been a second referendum, barring the chance that the UK negotiated another snowflake deal with the EU to appease the leave voters.

It seems more likely, given how close the result of the last election was, that if the tory party lost a good deal of voters to ukip labour would be in power.

Ah yes, how terrible it would be for leave voters to have a hardened Euroskeptic in power. The current remain Prime Minister is much better for their cause...

[Fartsniffage]

we've covered this before. it doesn't matter because even if the remainers are evil bastards that would have completely ignored you, the practical fact of the matter is that your side is too fragmented to build a consensus and is dependent on remain cooperation to get anything done. in that light, this is just a thought experiment by no dealers to justify why it's perfectly acceptable them to catapult towards something that most people do not want by refusing to actually solve the brexit deadlock because they are the sole party that benefits most from leaving it unsolved.

It's not too fragmented, it's just not well-placed. Doesn't have enough members amongst the metropolitans.
That, and the fact that the remainers don't seem to want to respect the fact that they lost.

How dare Jezza table a vote of no confidence in May. He just won't respect the fact that his party lost. The utter bastard.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Prove that. Please.

52 % of people voted for Brexit. If 35 % of the total supported no deal, unless there has been a major shift from remain to no deal (unlikely) it appears as if the majority who voted for Brexit support no deal.

The referendum was on whether or not the UK wanted to leave the EU, not on whether to give dictatorial control over all national policies and legislation to 51% of the population to disregard the other 49%.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

It's more like how the labour candidate for Edinburgh North and Leith can't vote in the commons. If you think about parliamentary elections as what they really are supposed to be (elections for your seat), what I said applies to them also.

The referendum was a national, not local vote. Also, local elections are binding, national referenda are not.

The result of the referendum was made binding in a subsequent vote. Again, to go back to elections, they can be declared invalid by the election commission, much as it would be perfectly legal (political suicide is legal) for the government to revoke article 50.

Your analogy is more similar to a national vote for one office, not to a vote for many offices, as exists in a parliamentary election. If Trump won he election, do Clinton supporters get the chance to re-run it?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

It seems more likely, given how close the result of the last election was, that if the tory party lost a good deal of voters to ukip labour would be in power.

Ah yes, how terrible it would be for leave voters to have a hardened Euroskeptic in power. The current remain Prime Minister is much better for their cause...

We saw what happened when the tories had a leadership contest, the conservative internal rules make it a guaranteed stitch-up.

[Alyakia]

tHe QuEsTiOn Of A sEcOnD rEfErEnDuM wAs RaIsEd By Mr FaRaGe In An InTeRvIeW wItH tHe MiRrOr In WhIcH hE sAiD: "iN a 52-48 rEfErEnDuM tHiS wOuLd Be UnFiNiShEd BuSiNeSs By A lOnG wAy. iF tHe ReMaIn CaMpAiGn WiN tWo-tHiRdS tO oNe-tHiRd ThAt EnDs It

we already know what would have happened if remain won even down the literal 52-48 outcome. leave would have not sat down and said "gee whizz guess we lost" like current leavers expect remainers to do.

please stop asking.

[Ostroeuropa]

I propose that being found in violation of electoral commission rules in future result in a 4 year civic death on the issue of slander and libel for the perpetrators. They would not be eligible to sue on those grounds, nor would slander and libel against them violate standards/conduct and so on. They would be non-entities on that topic.

[Fartsniffage]

The referendum was a national, not local vote. Also, local elections are binding, national referenda are not.

The result of the referendum was made binding in a subsequent vote. Again, to go back to elections, they can be declared invalid by the election commission, much as it would be perfectly legal (political suicide is legal) for the government to revoke article 50.

Your analogy is more similar to a national vote for one office, not to a vote for many offices, as exists in a parliamentary election. If Trump won he election, do Clinton supporters get the chance to re-run it?

By your standard Trump lost the election. Would you argue that remain should have won with fewer votes than leave?

[Shrillland]

The referendum was a national, not local vote. Also, local elections are binding, national referenda are not.

The result of the referendum was made binding in a subsequent vote. Again, to go back to elections, they can be declared invalid by the election commission, much as it would be perfectly legal (political suicide is legal) for the government to revoke article 50.

Your analogy is more similar to a national vote for one office, not to a vote for many offices, as exists in a parliamentary election. If Trump won he election, do Clinton supporters get the chance to re-run it?

No, but our constitution has fixed terms and no way to call snap elections, Britain isn't so constrained as that.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

tHe QuEsTiOn Of A sEcOnD rEfErEnDuM wAs RaIsEd By Mr FaRaGe In An InTeRvIeW wItH tHe MiRrOr In WhIcH hE sAiD: "iN a 52-48 rEfErEnDuM tHiS wOuLd Be UnFiNiShEd BuSiNeSs By A lOnG wAy. iF tHe ReMaIn CaMpAiGn WiN tWo-tHiRdS tO oNe-tHiRd ThAt EnDs It

we already know what would have happened if remain won

please stop asking

Please don't post like that, screen readers really don't like it.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

DUP voted against everything - what do they want again?

They probably want Brexit.

In other words, not what was offered today.