UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[The Huskar Social Union]

UKIP call for referendum to scrap assembly in 2024

UKIP's ruling body has agreed to campaign against devolution in Wales, calling for a poll on the future of the National Assembly for Wales.

It wants a referendum in 2024, on the 25th anniversary of devolution.

Gareth Bennett, UKIP's assembly leader, was elected last summer on an anti-devolution platform which was not UK party policy at the time.

Welsh Tory leader Paul Davies said it was "out of the question" to think of abandoning the Senedd.

The change, which would see the party campaign against the institution if any poll was to happen, was adopted by a unanimous vote of the party's National Executive Committee.

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

"What the UK clearly doesn't need is this tier of extra politicians who add no value to public life.

"Most indicators show that Wales' performance has got markedly worse since 1999, when devolved government began. We have to accept that devolution hasn't worked for most people."

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

UKIP call for referendum to scrap assembly in 2024

UKIP's ruling body has agreed to campaign against devolution in Wales, calling for a poll on the future of the National Assembly for Wales.

It wants a referendum in 2024, on the 25th anniversary of devolution.

Gareth Bennett, UKIP's assembly leader, was elected last summer on an anti-devolution platform which was not UK party policy at the time.

Welsh Tory leader Paul Davies said it was "out of the question" to think of abandoning the Senedd.

The change, which would see the party campaign against the institution if any poll was to happen, was adopted by a unanimous vote of the party's National Executive Committee.

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

"What the UK clearly doesn't need is this tier of extra politicians who add no value to public life.

"Most indicators show that Wales' performance has got markedly worse since 1999, when devolved government began. We have to accept that devolution hasn't worked for most people."

Like we need more referenda.

[Vassenor]

UKIP call for referendum to scrap assembly in 2024

UKIP's ruling body has agreed to campaign against devolution in Wales, calling for a poll on the future of the National Assembly for Wales.

It wants a referendum in 2024, on the 25th anniversary of devolution.

Gareth Bennett, UKIP's assembly leader, was elected last summer on an anti-devolution platform which was not UK party policy at the time.

Welsh Tory leader Paul Davies said it was "out of the question" to think of abandoning the Senedd.

The change, which would see the party campaign against the institution if any poll was to happen, was adopted by a unanimous vote of the party's National Executive Committee.

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

"What the UK clearly doesn't need is this tier of extra politicians who add no value to public life.

"Most indicators show that Wales' performance has got markedly worse since 1999, when devolved government began. We have to accept that devolution hasn't worked for most people."

How well is this likely to go for them?

[Souseiseki]

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

get fucked

[Vassenor]

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

get fucked

At this point it's pretty clear that UKIP is an English Nationalist party masquerading as a British Nationalist Party.

[Dooom35796821595]

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

get fucked

It is a question worth asking, we shouldn’t blindly assume devolution is a good thing. Especially since the whole point of devolution was to keep the UK together, but parties like the SNP and the recent independence referendum clearly show that isn’t working. And every argument in favour of devolution can be used to argue against the EU and it’s ever closer union, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

*edit* I just wish it didn’t fall to UKIP to voice these concerns. Shows how representative the main parties are.

[The Blaatschapen]

get fucked

It is a question worth asking, we shouldn’t blindly assume devolution is a good thing. Especially since the whole point of devolution was to keep the UK together, but parties like the SNP and the recent independence referendum clearly show that isn’t working. And every argument in favour of devolution can be used to argue against the EU and it’s ever closer union, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

Every argument against devolution can be used to argue in favour of the EU, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

It works both ways

[Dooom35796821595]

It is a question worth asking, we shouldn’t blindly assume devolution is a good thing. Especially since the whole point of devolution was to keep the UK together, but parties like the SNP and the recent independence referendum clearly show that isn’t working. And every argument in favour of devolution can be used to argue against the EU and it’s ever closer union, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

Every argument against devolution can be used to argue in favour of the EU, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

It works both ways

Indeed it does. People are strange, illogical things.

[Andsed]

Sounds like the EU are going to make May say exactly what she is going to use a delay for... she may not have a good answer for that.

At this point Brexit is going to be going on until like 2050. I have not been keeping close tabs on Brexit so just holy shit how did things go this poorly?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

get fucked

It is a question worth asking, we shouldn’t blindly assume devolution is a good thing. Especially since the whole point of devolution was to keep the UK together, but parties like the SNP and the recent independence referendum clearly show that isn’t working. And every argument in favour of devolution can be used to argue against the EU and it’s ever closer union, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

*edit* I just wish it didn’t fall to UKIP to voice these concerns. Shows how representative the main parties are.

The EU is a union of 28 sovereign, equal members who willingly gave up some sovereignty and can leave at any time, kept together by mutual benefit. The EU is a devolutionary dream.

[Fartsniffage]

Sounds like the EU are going to make May say exactly what she is going to use a delay for... she may not have a good answer for that.

At this point Brexit is going to be going on until like 2050. I have not been keeping close tabs on Brexit so just holy shit how did things go this poorly?

[Ifreann]

Sounds like the EU are going to make May say exactly what she is going to use a delay for... she may not have a good answer for that.

Hard extension? Soft extension? Red, white and blue extension?

Oh no, it's all happening again!

[Caracasus]

Sounds like the EU are going to make May say exactly what she is going to use a delay for... she may not have a good answer for that.

At this point Brexit is going to be going on until like 2050. I have not been keeping close tabs on Brexit so just holy shit how did things go this poorly?

About 2 percent more people who voted in the referendum voted to leave. There was no clear split between Labour or Conservative voters on this meaning both the big parties had to try and placate two groups of voters who said they wanted opposite things.

The party in charge has always torn itself to pieces over the EU, and because they lost a gamble on the General Election the power of individual politicians and smaller groups in that party was magnified.

Due to the way stuff works, the person nominally in charge made a series of cockups without apparently any decent oversight and those sent to negotiate with the EU.... didn't and a charitable reading of that would be because the government they were negotiating for had no real control or mandate.

So yeah. Unsurprisingly the whole project is up shit creek without a paddle. I am sure a government could negotiate withdrawal from the EU and get a decent deal. I am equally certain the government we have absolutely can't.

[The New California Republic]

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

Closing the devolved assemblies would lead to an explosion of nationalist sentiment in response. No. What the fuck is UKIP thinking? They really want to get rid of the pressure release valve that staves off the Union tearing itself apart? Fucking idiots.

[Caracasus]

Mr Bennett: "Devolution is a white elephant which has added nothing to the welfare of people in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales. The devolved assemblies are a waste of taxpayers' money, and need to be scrapped."

Closing the devolved assemblies would lead to an explosion of nationalist sentiment in response. No. What the fuck is UKIP thinking? They really want to get rid of the pressure release valve that staves off the Union tearing itself apart? Fucking idiots.

It's just noise. Like a problematic 70's entertainer technically cleared of charges by Operation Yewtree might pick up work touring bingo halls in seaside towns to try and stay relavent, UKIP release occasional brainfarts in the hopes they might stay in the news.

[Dooom35796821595]

It is a question worth asking, we shouldn’t blindly assume devolution is a good thing. Especially since the whole point of devolution was to keep the UK together, but parties like the SNP and the recent independence referendum clearly show that isn’t working. And every argument in favour of devolution can be used to argue against the EU and it’s ever closer union, strange then that the two ideals are so often in the same camp.

*edit* I just wish it didn’t fall to UKIP to voice these concerns. Shows how representative the main parties are.

The EU is a union of 28 sovereign, equal members who willingly gave up some sovereignty and can leave at any time, kept together by mutual benefit. The EU is a devolutionary dream.

Except devolution is the transfer of power from a central authority to more local representatives, where the EU is actively transferring power to a central authority. Kinda the opposite, even if they currently resemble each other at the moment.

And two examples of devolution in the UK have failed quite badly, the Northern Irish don’t even have a government and the Scottish are dominated by rabid nationalists intent on Scottish independence rather then what’s best for Scotland.
Of course, the central option doesn’t look to great either right now.....

[The Archregimancy]

She still claims that title?

Though the Duke of Normandy was subordinate to the King of France.

Which, doesn't exist since France is a republic and hasn't had a king since the 19th century.

Except that the President of France is a monarch by right.

The President of France is always co-prince of Andorra, alongside the Bishop of Urgell.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're not likely to remove devolution in Wales given that it provides a layer of protection against the Conservative party. The two biggest parties in wales form a hypermajority of voters, Labour and Plaid Cymru.

Plaid will never support it under any circumstances, and Labour is extremely unlikely to unless the political landscape of wales and the UK change dramatically given that it ensures they always retain some level of government over Wales.

The current debate is; "More power, or status quo?" with "More power" having a plurality of support and status quo forming an obstructionist minority.

More power:
40%
Status Quo:
23%
Fewer powers:
4%
Abolish:
18%
No opinion:
7%

It might work as a means of getting those "Abolish" voters to back UKIP, but that's about it.

Labour+Plaid = 60-70% of Voters.

Plaid exists as an "Independence" party and as a "I'm a Labour voter but angry at Labour" party.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You're not likely to remove devolution in Wales given that it provides a layer of protection against the Conservative party. The two biggest parties in wales form a hypermajority of voters, Labour and Plaid Cymru.

Plaid will never support it under any circumstances, and Labour is extremely unlikely to unless the political landscape of wales and the UK change dramatically given that it ensures they always retain some level of government over Wales.

The current debate is; "More power, or status quo?" with "More power" having a plurality of support and status quo forming an obstructionist minority.

More power:
40%
Status Quo:
23%
Fewer powers:
4%
Abolish:
18%
No opinion:
7%

It might work as a means of getting those "Abolish" voters to back UKIP, but that's about it.

what is the percentage for UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[The Archregimancy]

She still claims that title?

Though the Duke of Normandy was subordinate to the King of France.

Yes, and when she visits Normandy the locals chant "Vive la duchesse!", and she corrected them, saying that she is the DUKE of Normandy.

Ah; I think you've misremembered a royal visit to Normandy in 1967.

The locals did indeed shout 'Vive la Duchesse!', but the Queen's slightly amused reply was 'Well, I am the Duke of Normandy', jokingly acknowledging her right to the title, rather than 'Well, I am the Duke of Normandy', to correct the gender.


The Queen is also, of course, Lord of Man - her other Crown Dependency gender-neutral title.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're not likely to remove devolution in Wales given that it provides a layer of protection against the Conservative party. The two biggest parties in wales form a hypermajority of voters, Labour and Plaid Cymru.

Plaid will never support it under any circumstances, and Labour is extremely unlikely to unless the political landscape of wales and the UK change dramatically given that it ensures they always retain some level of government over Wales.

The current debate is; "More power, or status quo?" with "More power" having a plurality of support and status quo forming an obstructionist minority.

More power:
40%
Status Quo:
23%
Fewer powers:
4%
Abolish:
18%
No opinion:
7%

It might work as a means of getting those "Abolish" voters to back UKIP, but that's about it.

what is the percentage for UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

It caps out at 18% given recent turbulence, but usually hovers around 7-10%.

The major debate is within the Labour party, with those supporting devolution on ideological and practical grounds ("It gives the labour party more control over wales") and those afraid it will lead to welsh independence if more power is given.

[Nimzonia]

Maybe it happened a long time ago and I wasn't paying attention, but it looks like the Telegraph is now completely indistinguishable from the Daily Mail.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/19/donald-trump-junior-says-theresa-may-should-have-taken-his-fathers-brexit-advice/

Complete with frothing, deranged comments section. All they need now is 500 links to idiotic celebrity gossip in the sidebar, and we might as well rename it to the Mailegraph.

Apologies for linking to something written by Donald Trump Jr and reminding everyone of his continued existence.

[The Huskar Social Union]

what is the percentage for UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

It caps out at 18% given recent turbulence, but usually hovers around 7-10%.

Welsh bitches need some papa palpatine in their lives. That number is way too low. Come on ostro whip them into shape.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Unemployment has fallen below 4% for the first time since 1974. This is because full-time employment has grown faster than part-time employment and zero-hour employment has fallen, so it made a net gain of 30k jobs.

For the record, 4% was the number considered by Labour Keynesians as 'optimal' back in the 60s and 70s. So we're currently at a lower rate than socialists wanted.

I don't think this level of poverty and wealth inequality is quite what they had in mind.

Income inequality in the UK has been falling every year since 1989. Wealth inequality is a nonsense measurement. You can be in poverty living on prime real estate and thus be nominally rich or you can have high income as a financial director but choose to rent a house and have no assets to your name and be treated as a pauper.

Poverty? absolute poverty for pensioners in the 1990s was around 60%. Today it's less than 10%.

Unemployment has fallen below 4% for the first time since 1974. This is because full-time employment has grown faster than part-time employment and zero-hour employment has fallen, so it made a net gain of 30k jobs.

For the record, 4% was the number considered by Labour Keynesians as 'optimal' back in the 60s and 70s. So we're currently at a lower rate than socialists wanted.

And what makes an optimal figure half a century ago optimal now?

i don't know, you tell me, what doesn't make it optimal anymore? what changed? do you have peer-reviewed proof of this?

[The Blaatschapen]

At this point Brexit is going to be going on until like 2050. I have not been keeping close tabs on Brexit so just holy shit how did things go this poorly?

If you want my future, forget my past.

Seems apt