UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Hurdergaryp]

What point was that?

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

These days you can make a career out of such behaviour, at the tax payer's expense.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

What point was that?

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

That's not a point, it's a bad comparison.

[Mostrov]

What point was that?

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

The Delian League, or Athenian Empire, began as such a democracy but after what it became the empire was called a slavery by the Greeks.

[Domina Nostra Nova Terra]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

The irony is that she is a Roman Catholic, who on one hand believes that the country should be free from Europe's grasp and on the other believes in submission to it. Roman Catholic's should be disqualified from Parliament: I was never fond of Rees-Mogg anyway.

There is a fundamental difference between submitting to Christ's Vicar and having your country a member of a secular bureaucratic secular state.

Nice to see the UK still hasn't gotten over irrationally hating Catholics.

[Caracasus]

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

The Delian League, or Athenian Empire, began as such a democracy but after what it became the empire was called a slavery by the Greeks.

Athenian democracy started out in a slave state. Their democracy was supported by an underclass of slaves and women who did all the manual work.

While comparisons certainly can be made to modern democracy, I would be fucking amazed if Ann Widdicombe is calling for the liberation of the third world here. It seems more likely she's just being a bit thick, deliberately or otherwise.

[Mostrov]

Athenian democracy started out in a slave state. Their democracy was supported by an underclass of slaves and women who did all the manual work.

While comparisons certainly can be made to modern democracy, I would be fucking amazed if Ann Widdicombe is calling for the liberation of the third world here. It seems more likely she's just being a bit thick, deliberately or otherwise.

Perhaps re-read what I wrote carefully and see if you can understand it, being an issue editor with a good 'command' of the English language and highly intelligent I'm sure this may be possible. As a hint, It doesn't have anything to do with your Marxist historiography no matter how much you think it to be.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Comparing the EU, an international organisation to which you apply freely, from which you can withdraw, which makes decisions based on democratic principles and member consensus, to slavery, is both moronic and in very poor taste, seeing as there are still people held in actual slavery.

Taste doesn't come into it, she was trying to make a point and she made it.

Taste does come into it. I don't see why it shouldn't. She made a point about slavery, representing a country that actually committed the crime of slavery in which people are still held as slaves to this day. The made the point badly and she is not above criticism for that.

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

The Delian League, or Athenian Empire, began as such a democracy but after what it became the empire was called a slavery by the Greeks.

There is something supremely disgusting about a state that holds actual people in actually slavery comparing their relatively free and privileged position with slavery, don't you agree?

Also, when in the last 50 years has the EU transitioned into an empire?

[Vassenor]

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.

The Delian League, or Athenian Empire, began as such a democracy but after what it became the empire was called a slavery by the Greeks.

So if the EU is the Delian League, who are the Persians in this comparison?

[Caracasus]

Athenian democracy started out in a slave state. Their democracy was supported by an underclass of slaves and women who did all the manual work.

While comparisons certainly can be made to modern democracy, I would be fucking amazed if Ann Widdicombe is calling for the liberation of the third world here. It seems more likely she's just being a bit thick, deliberately or otherwise.

Perhaps re-read what I wrote carefully and see if you can understand it, being an issue editor with a good 'command' of the English language and highly intelligent I'm sure this may be possible. As a hint, It doesn't have anything to do with your Marxist historiography no matter how much you think it to be.

Nah that's on you for torturing an already fucked comparison far beyond breaking point mate. Can't expect anyone to make sense of meaningless drivel.

[Caracasus]

The Delian League, or Athenian Empire, began as such a democracy but after what it became the empire was called a slavery by the Greeks.

So if the EU is the Delian League, who are the Persians in this comparison?

Who fucking knows at this point. Some warhammer faction maybe?

[Hurdergaryp]

So if the EU is the Delian League, who are the Persians in this comparison?

Who fucking knows at this point. Some warhammer faction maybe?

In that case the United Kingdom belongs firmly to Nurgle.

[Mostrov]

So if the EU is the Delian League, who are the Persians in this comparison?

A league formed to prevent war among themselves in order to united against larger powers, such as, say, the Soviet Union or the very Russia you seemed so terrified of gaining from Brexit, is not an apt comparison? So much for the Common Foreign and Security Policy: which one would think is designed for that very purpose.

There is something supremely disgusting about a state that holds actual people in actually slavery comparing their relatively free and privileged position with slavery, don't you agree?

Also, when in the last 50 years has the EU transitioned into an empire?

Hypocrite is a Greek word after all, but again then Americans, British, French &c. have had high flown rhetoric of freedom for centuries despite literally having slavery, which was often more brutal than anything the ancients had. I'm glad you find the people who wrote the American Bill of Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights "supremely disgusting".

When did the Delian League, if not by degrees? Perhaps it was the gradual centralization of monetary and court systems in a single place, or perhaps when they decreed how much taxation was to be paid etc. If you want a profound, and not passsive-aggressive, answer: what even is an empire?

Nah that's on you for torturing an already fucked comparison far beyond breaking point mate. Can't expect anyone to make sense of meaningless drivel.

You're very good at your job!

Perhaps, if we think of it from a grammatical and syntactical perspective: it was a statement contingent on what the Greeks thought, who if you try to think abstractly (e.g. marxist dialectic, which you seem to love) were probably familiar with what slavery was, and, quite possibly, in saying that an empire was a slavery, were saying that the overarching power or 'bureaucracy' of this central metropolis governing peripheral states, of which, in all Greece, were run by free men, was enslaving free (and often, and indeed compulsorily so by the later stages, democratic) Hellenes. Therefore: a democracy can be a slavery.

But, we can look at even more recent history to find many examples of a such democracies—which we are to define here as being a government in which all citizens have a right to vote, if you think you can try and be pedantic—in which there was an exploited class: be it actual slaves, overseas territories, or neo-colonialist ventures in other continents exploited through neo-liberal outsourcing and bush wars.

Obviously, it is a rhetorical claim, if you know what this is, which will always be subjectively interpreted—but it was an example to be made of a "comparison": which is also a rhetorical claim, that the statement made was not without precedent.

Would it help if there were not so many big words?

[Caracasus]

So if the EU is the Delian League, who are the Persians in this comparison?

A league formed to prevent war among themselves in order to united against larger powers, such as, say, the Soviet Union or the very Russia you seemed so terrified of gaining from Brexit, is not an apt comparison? So much for the Common Foreign and Security Policy: which one would think is designed for that very purpose.

There is something supremely disgusting about a state that holds actual people in actually slavery comparing their relatively free and privileged position with slavery, don't you agree?

Also, when in the last 50 years has the EU transitioned into an empire?

Hypocrite is a Greek word after all, but again then Americans, British, French &c. have had high flown rhetoric of freedom for centuries despite literally having slavery, which was often more brutal than anything the ancients had. I'm glad you find the people who wrote the American Bill of Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights "supremely disgusting".

When did the Delian League, if not by degrees? Perhaps it was the gradual centralization of monetary and court systems in a single place, or perhaps when they decreed how much taxation was to be paid etc. If you want a profound, and not passsive-aggressive, answer: what even is an empire?

Nah that's on you for torturing an already fucked comparison far beyond breaking point mate. Can't expect anyone to make sense of meaningless drivel.

You're very good at your job!

Perhaps, if we think of it from a grammatical and syntactical perspective: it was a statement contingent on what the Greeks thought, who if you try to think abstractly (e.g. marxist dialectic, which you seem to love) were probably familiar with what slavery was, and, quite possibly, in saying that an empire was a slavery, were saying that the overarching power or 'bureaucracy' of this central metropolis governing peripheral states, of which, in all Greece, were run by free men, was enslaving free (and often, and indeed compulsorily so by the later stages, democratic) Hellenes. Therefore: a democracy can be a slavery.

But, we can look at even more recent history to find many examples of a such democracies—which we are to define here as being a government in which all citizens have a right to vote, if you think you can try and be pedantic—in which there was an exploited class: be it actual slaves, overseas territories, or neo-colonialist ventures in other continents exploited through neo-liberal outsourcing and bush wars.

Obviously, it is a rhetorical claim, if you know what this is, which will always be subjectively interpreted—but it was an example to be made of a "comparison": which is also a rhetorical claim, that the statement made was not without precedent.

Would it help if there were not so many big words?

Nah.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

How is all this relevant to the current rule of scolds in Britain? <.>

[Mostrov]

A man of big words indeed.

[Caracasus]

How is all this relevant to the current rule of scolds in Britain? <.>

It's not, but if you butcher what playing one of Paradox's genocide simulators taught you about history enough and squint really hard it kinda looks like it is.

[Mostrov]

Apparently, they teach you how to read Thucydides in Greek.

[Jakker]

Let's all chill with the personal insults and not let things escalate further.

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48890803

The words piss-up and brewery come to mind....

[Ifreann]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48890803

The words piss-up and brewery come to mind....

But I'm sure they'll be able to handle Brexit.

[The Archregimancy]

When did the Delian League, if not by degrees? Perhaps it was the gradual centralization of monetary and court systems in a single place, or perhaps when they decreed how much taxation was to be paid etc.

Sorry; I've only just seen this. I've been away for a few days.

Just for clarity, are you seriously arguing that the Delian League is an appropriate historical analogue for offering support Anne Widdicombe's EU Parliament speech slavery point? Or are you just making a broad rhetorical point while hoping that no one else posting in the thread is going to familiar enough with the politics of the 5th-century BC Aegean to call you up on the obvious flaws in the comparison?

It's not the first time I've noticed you doing this sort of thing. Maybe I should have said something a couple of years ago when you seemed to use Decline and Fall as a serious basis for making a point about Pertinax and British politics, rather than acknowledging that Gibbon was engaging in ideologically loaded idealised Enlightenment point-scoring that makes for great literature, but no so much a reliable guide to modern historical interpretation. Ironically, you would have been on much stronger ground citing Cassius Dio to make the original point.

But I digress.

I'll try and pay closer attention to your classical history comparisons in future.

[Hurdergaryp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48890803

The words piss-up and brewery come to mind....

But I'm sure they'll be able to handle Brexit.

Oh, undoubtedly. Some people will become filthy rich thanks to the whole affair, so everything is going to be splendid.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48890803

The words piss-up and brewery come to mind....

Labour run elections in a considerably better way.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48890803

The words piss-up and brewery come to mind....

I have some sympathy with them. When I managed a mailing list fucking idiots valued customers were always signing themselves up multiple times then complaining about getting duplicate mailings.

[Bear Stearns]

I will be in the UK next month!