UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Fartsniffage]

UK slavery network 'had 400 victims'

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better life.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and work menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

Eight offenders, who police say are members and associates of two Polish crime families, have been jailed after being convicted in two separate trials of crimes including trafficking, conspiracy to require another to perform forced labour and money laundering.

Disgusting this shit still happens. At least these ones have been arrested

Why does it always seem to be the midlands when this shit happens?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

UK slavery network 'had 400 victims'



Disgusting this shit still happens. At least these ones have been arrested

Why does it always seem to be the midlands when this shit happens?

That’s how something becomes Midlands. It gets added when shit like that happens.

[Galloism]

An interesting perspective, but what if instead we just picked politicians like we picked juries?

Sure, a nutter will get in there now and again, but on the balance, it probably would be better than what we have now.

At random from the electoral roll? Isn’t that what they did in Rome?

But we can do it without the murder. Probably.

[Hurdergaryp]

At random from the electoral roll? Isn’t that what they did in Rome?

But we can do it without the murder. Probably.

If political murder becomes a valid option once more, would that take care of the amoral opportunists, or would it increase their number?

[Fartsniffage]

At random from the electoral roll? Isn’t that what they did in Rome?

But we can do it without the murder. Probably.

But why would we want to?

[Ostroeuropa]

But we can do it without the murder. Probably.

If political murder becomes a valid option once more, would that take care of the amoral opportunists, or would it increase their number?

Rome did pretty well on that front until the decline of the republic. So it did well until it didn't.

The lesson of rome is probably a lesson of realpolitik.

When the general you're trying to throw in prison offers to give up 95% of his army and piss off to a far flung province provided you drop charges, you should probably agree.

Also known as;
Conservative purists doom us all by going absolutely apeshit about a populist talking about tax reform and refusing to recognize reality, thinking they can bully him into letting them throw him in prison for no reason at all even when he holds all the cards. (The army and the people). I.E, Cato declining Caesars offer and ending up disemboweled eventually.

Memorialized with Brutus and his gleeful exclamation that "Caesar is becoming a Conservative!" upon hearing news the dictator had decided to reform welfare (Making it means tested instead of on-request with only a limited availability on a first come first serve basis) and legendary moderate and bantzmaster Ciceros response "Why do you say that, is he killing himself?" (More of a "Dooming himself to be killed/suicide by idiocy" translation.).


Society functions just fine as long as the values everyone holds aren't 100% at odds with a powerful persons self-interest and we just magically expect them to behave anyway instead of taking measures to force them to do so.

Caesar arguably even had the law and right on his side right up until his march to the temple to seize the treasury of rome to fund his wars, and was met by a tribune who had barricaded the doors there. (Who is a real hero of history in terms of standing up to dictatorship.).

Caesar was all, oh I need to take this moneys to fund my campaign to bring the criminals to justice, the law and blah blah blah.

(The civil war was caused by a really shittily written law with no real right interpretation. Hence "Arguably Caesar is in the right and the people trying to jail him are usurping the republic.").

And the Tribune just shouts "VETO." right at him halfway through his explanation.

So Caesar basically has to try and legalese his way into getting the funds and just gets VETO over and over, until Caesar draws a sword and threatens the Tribune with death if he doesn't stand aside and let Caesar have access to the treasury, and the badass smugly smiles and stands aside, having successfully stripped Caesar of his pretensions for everyone to see.

You could argue that right there is the real moment the republic died. Not when Caesar took rome, but when he abandoned all pretense at the rule of law in front of the temple of Jupiter.

[Hurdergaryp]

But we can do it without the murder. Probably.

But why would we want to?

It's the polite thing to do.

[Fartsniffage]

But why would we want to?

It's the polite thing to do.

[Dooom35796821595]

It's the polite thing to do.

Polite, not nice. And the British are nothing if not polite, often in a not nice sarcastic and judgemental sort of way.

[Celritannia]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

[Galloism]

Polite, not nice. And the British are nothing if not polite, often in a not nice sarcastic and judgemental sort of way.

Relevant.

[Mostrov]

UK slavery network 'had 400 victims'

Eight offenders, who police say are members and associates of two Polish crime families, have been jailed after being convicted in two separate trials of crimes including trafficking, conspiracy to require another to perform forced labour and money laundering.

Disgusting this shit still happens. At least these ones have been arrested

These were whites, yet certain circles seem to think human trafficking synonymous with certain cultures. Eastern Europe is an utter hotbed for this and what I have heard about Germany's 'regulated' sex industry being a prime destination fills me with great contempt for a country that pretends to have a higher moral ground than us.

An interesting perspective, but what if instead we just picked politicians like we picked juries?

Sure, a nutter will get in there now and again, but on the balance, it probably would be better than what we have now.

Notably, countries that used the Jury system, Athens and to some extent Sparta and so on, died off in large part because they were far too conservative and couldn't respond to change.

Athens was anything but conservative (Sparta did and its decline), I don't think its system of democracy and appointment by lot was what destroyed it: its decline, if you have read about, sounds more to be the caprices of history and shows it to be have been possible even for us: democracy is not inevitably going to triumph over tyranny by its own virtue, and in the last century we have seen times where that has been perilously close to happening. It had problems that were familiar to us today, but I believe Ancient Athens was one of the best governed places to ever exist.

The great advantage of the system by lot is that it meant that due to the small number of citizens, it meant that practically all members were familiar with how the government works and were incentivized to be active in its interests, as well as having a large pool of collective wisdom to deal with. Certainly this isn't possible for the national government of a population with many millions, but it would easily work for local government: I think our councils are generally inefficient and prone to capture by people seeking their own advantage, and I firmly believe all public service should be without pay: but it doesn't strike me as unfair to have compensation for lost income to support people. Certainly at a national level there should be no pay, as it creates career politicians who have lived their entire lives in a bubble.

I could write about the advantages and disadvantages of the Greek (and to a lesser degree Roman) systems if anyone is interested, but I am pressed for time as I write this.

And what would you suggest as a better alternative than a democratic Parliament?

I think we should restrict the franchise to the wealthy, although I don't know what should be the limit, as with the Ancient Greeks, as it because they have a larger interest in the well-being of the state rather than hoping for benefits: we should be trying to ensure that wealthy have the same interests as the state, rather than, as they are now, following private interests and simply lobbying the government. It would also make them far more accountable to the public if they had to be members of, say, the House of Lords (and was this bodies original function).

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

How did this common scold get elected?

[The Huskar Social Union]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

How did this common scold get elected?

"Im an angry bitter little person who will blame literally everyone else for my problems"
"Got my vote"

[Nakena]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

How did this common scold get elected?

Angry Birds. Very angry voters, who just want to crash and burn things.

Those people feed off negative energy and emotions. Which is why I wouldn vote for them.

[Caracasus]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

How did this common scold get elected?

Earlier in her career she proved quite capable of playing the media spin game, and became something of a reality tv personality. She presented (or perhaps some PR firm presented) herself as a bit of a fusty old woman who was a bit sick of all this modern nonsense and wanted to return to the good old days of cricket on the village green, pimms and local schoolkids doing the harvest festival.

Of course, the mask's slipped a bit now, but the above is certainly a big part of why she became popular and got elected in the first place. I guess she's playing to a different crowd, or the old crowd were really quite unpleasent after all.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

What was so bad about it?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

What was so bad about it?

Comparing the EU, an international organisation to which you apply freely, from which you can withdraw, which makes decisions based on democratic principles and member consensus, to slavery, is both moronic and in very poor taste, seeing as there are still people held in actual slavery.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

The Daily Mash take on Anne Widdecombe's speech is pretty much a good summation

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics ... 0705187171

[Vassenor]

What was so bad about it?

Comparing the EU, an international organisation to which you apply freely, from which you can withdraw, which makes decisions based on democratic principles and member consensus, to slavery, is both moronic and in very poor taste, seeing as there are still people held in actual slavery.

But the big part of the BP narrative is that the EU is the greatest most oppressive force in the history of ever.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

What was so bad about it?

Comparing the EU, an international organisation to which you apply freely, from which you can withdraw, which makes decisions based on democratic principles and member consensus, to slavery, is both moronic and in very poor taste, seeing as there are still people held in actual slavery.

Taste doesn't come into it, she was trying to make a point and she made it.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Comparing the EU, an international organisation to which you apply freely, from which you can withdraw, which makes decisions based on democratic principles and member consensus, to slavery, is both moronic and in very poor taste, seeing as there are still people held in actual slavery.

Taste doesn't come into it, she was trying to make a point and she made it.

What point was that?

[Hurdergaryp]

Taste doesn't come into it, she was trying to make a point and she made it.

What point was that?

That she's a malicious idiot, and enjoying every second of her existence.

[Mostrov]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned Ann Widdecombe's horrendous speech at the EU parliament.

(Image)

No one in the Brexit Party deserves to hold any political office. Yet they do love their EU pensions and expenses, and one (or a few) don't even live in the UK.

The irony is that she is a Roman Catholic, who on one hand believes that the country should be free from Europe's grasp and on the other believes in submission to it. Roman Catholic's should be disqualified from Parliament: I was never fond of Rees-Mogg anyway.

[Caracasus]

Taste doesn't come into it, she was trying to make a point and she made it.

What point was that?

That membership and representation within a large trading bloc of geographically and culturally close nations is like being a slave.

I mean, she gets paid to make points like that which is a bit fucking weird if you ask me.