Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:26 am
New Valmyria wrote:If they all got their way, the UK could be reduced to England, Cardiff, Pembrokeshire and Belfast...
Well, chances are London would pull a Cocknexit from UK too.
Because sometimes even national leaders just want to hang out
https://forum.nationstates.net/
New Valmyria wrote:If they all got their way, the UK could be reduced to England, Cardiff, Pembrokeshire and Belfast...
Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
(1) I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have (2) better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing, not being shackled to 27 other countries whose politics may be very different from our own, being (3) outside of the European arrest warrant, (4) having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important, (5) not being bound by ECJ rulings, (6) reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies, and not being bound by (7) EU climate change obligations. More will come to me, I'm sure.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing, not being shackled to 27 other countries whose politics may be very different from our own, being outside of the European arrest warrant, having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important, not being bound by ECJ rulings, reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies, and not being bound by EU climate change obligations. More will come to me, I'm sure.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
(1) I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have (2) better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing, not being shackled to 27 other countries whose politics may be very different from our own, being (3) outside of the European arrest warrant, (4) having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important, (5) not being bound by ECJ rulings, (6) reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies, and not being bound by (7) EU climate change obligations. More will come to me, I'm sure.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
1. You might not be swayed by economic arguments, but the economy is quite important to a country, you know.
2. Britain on its own will not be able to negotiate trade agreements that are as favourable as the EU can negotiate them, just by virtue of being a smaller economic block. Not being part of the 28 member block just means that you have to bow down to parties like the US or China, or the EU if Britain decides it wants to trade with us. Because if Britain wants to export goods to the EU, those goods will have to live up to EU standards. This will come back in a bit. Mind, you're making an economic argument now, which supposedly didn't matter to you.
3. The UK will still have extradition treaties with all EU countries, no matter if the UK is inside or outside the EU.
4. The UK has that right. It spends a tiny fraction of its budget on the EU. This argument also works for abolishing public education, by the way. "We are now shackled by those insidious, tyrannical schools imposing their budget requirements on us!" No, it's just one way to spend money. By the way, the UK makes that money back through its economy.
5. Name an ECJ ruling that you disagree with. Name one, with the reason why you dislike it. Or you know what, name me a ECJ ruling by name. Of course, the UK will still be bound by those rulings in practice if they want to continue trading with the EU.
6. Agricultural policy is in the hands of the member states, and Britain has thus far voted in favour of every fishery regulation there is.
7. What EU climate change obligation? The EU has thus far imposed no obligations regarding climate change on the members...
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing, not being shackled to 27 other countries whose politics may be very different from our own, being outside of the European arrest warrant, having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important, not being bound by ECJ rulings, reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies, and not being bound by EU climate change obligations. More will come to me, I'm sure.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
Celritannia wrote:Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing, not being shackled to 27 other countries whose politics may be very different from our own, being outside of the European arrest warrant, having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important, not being bound by ECJ rulings, reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies, and not being bound by EU climate change obligations. More will come to me, I'm sure.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
We were already able to trade with other nations, and other nations preferred trading with the UK as part of the EU.
Now businesses are leaving the UK due to Brexit.
Not to mention, the UK will spend more money on independent trade deals than trade deals as part f the EU.
The European Arrest Warrants, according to the Commissioner of the Met, not to mention several UK policing experts, are necessary. They have stated being outside the EAW would be damaging for policing.
We were already able to spend money on what we decided what was important. In fact, several UK areas, including my home town, are under the EU Development Scheme due to how run down they are. That funding from the EU (which the UK government does not care about) keeps youth centres, libraries, community centres, and so much more open.
The ECJ laws were written mostly by British Law Makers, and if it was not for the ECJ, the Bedroom tax would still be enforced.
You mean how Nigel Farage was member of the EU Parliamentary Committee for Agriculture and Fisheries, and only attended 1 out of 43 meetings to discuss UK fishing rights?
According to most farmers and fisheries, they rely on exporting their produce to the EU. So leaving the EU would be damaging to UK fisheries. Not to mention, UK fisheries, especially in the south, over-fish and not allow the fish to reproduce, which is why the EU tried to regulate UK fisheries
Climate change regulations are highly necessary, especially now more than ever.
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Celritannia wrote:
We were already able to trade with other nations, and other nations preferred trading with the UK as part of the EU.
Now businesses are leaving the UK due to Brexit.
Not to mention, the UK will spend more money on independent trade deals than trade deals as part f the EU.
The European Arrest Warrants, according to the Commissioner of the Met, not to mention several UK policing experts, are necessary. They have stated being outside the EAW would be damaging for policing.
We were already able to spend money on what we decided what was important. In fact, several UK areas, including my home town, are under the EU Development Scheme due to how run down they are. That funding from the EU (which the UK government does not care about) keeps youth centres, libraries, community centres, and so much more open.
The ECJ laws were written mostly by British Law Makers, and if it was not for the ECJ, the Bedroom tax would still be enforced.
You mean how Nigel Farage was member of the EU Parliamentary Committee for Agriculture and Fisheries, and only attended 1 out of 43 meetings to discuss UK fishing rights?
According to most farmers and fisheries, they rely on exporting their produce to the EU. So leaving the EU would be damaging to UK fisheries. Not to mention, UK fisheries, especially in the south, over-fish and not allow the fish to reproduce, which is why the EU tried to regulate UK fisheries
Climate change regulations are highly necessary, especially now more than ever.
I'm not concerned about whether business want to keep their hqs here, I'm more interested in whether a better selection of goods is available for british consumers.
If you tell me something would be 'bad for policing,' you're effectively telling me 'it's good for liberty.' I don't want more police powers, thank you, I want less of them.
What the UK decided is important obviously wasn't your local area then, was it? We shouldn't be forced to spend money on an area we don't believe is important.
The ECJ laws are judgements, not laws, and they are written by judges, not lawmakers. The ECJ has supremacy over our own courts, meaning that European laws have to be applied in british courts; most of these judgements were not written by British lawmakers, and even if they were it would not matter as they were being written for a legal system which is not our own. You may as well argue that we should keep to a particular piece of hong kong law because it was written by a retired UK supreme court judge.
Why do the vast majority of UK fishermen wish to leave the EU then? Does the EU know what is better for them and their communities than they do themselves?
Climate change is a threat, but not the biggest one at the moment. We don't need to focus on it.
The ECJ is the highest court of the European Union in matters of Union law, but not national law.
What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
I have supported Scottish independence and irish unification long before voting leave. They are not a downside for me.
I have never been swayed by economic arguments, so that's not really a major factor for me either.
Eh...our political situation is already a shithole, not seing a major change.
Personally, I see the benefits of Brexit as being able to have better trading and cooperative relations with markets that are actually growing,
being outside of the European arrest warrant,
having the right to spend more of our money on the things we decide are important,
not being bound by ECJ rulings,
reclaiming our fishing and agricultural policies,
and not being bound by EU climate change obligations.
Edit: One big one did. Not being bound by EU data sharing agreements. Don't expect it's a reason many others care about, but it's quite a biggy for me.
Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
Old Tyrannia wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
It's not like these things are an inherent outcome of leaving the European Union, as much as hardline remainers would like to persuade us so. It's the way Brexit has been implemented that has made the process such a catastrophe, and that's partially down to people like you refusing any kind of compromise that could result in an orderly exit in favour of holding out for a second referendum.
Old Tyrannia wrote:Duhon wrote:Might as well ask this one.
So for those who want Brexit (or plain Exit as the case will be if you keep on tearing your own country apart): what positive do you get from this? You lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, even possibly Wales, your economy craters, your political system descends into a shithole.
Other than the "sovereignty" snake oil, what is there for you to get?
It's not like these things are an inherent outcome of leaving the European Union, as much as hardline remainers would like to persuade us so. It's the way Brexit has been implemented that has made the process such a catastrophe, and that's partially down to people like you refusing any kind of compromise that could result in an orderly exit in favour of holding out for a second referendum.
Bienenhalde wrote:It would probably be a good idea to raise taxes on the rich and big business to help pay for the inevitable complications related to Brexit.
Why do the vast majority of UK fishermen wish to leave the EU then? Does the EU know what is better for them and their communities than they do themselves?
Old Tyrannia wrote:, and that's partially down to people like you refusing any kind of compromise that could result in an orderly exit in favour of holding out for a second referendum
It's the way Brexit has been implemented that has made the process such a catastrophe
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Boris Johnson also takes cannabis apparently:
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14467 ... -cannabis/
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Boris Johnson also takes cannabis apparently:
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14467 ... -cannabis/
"I tried it (cocaine) at university and I remember it vividly. It achieved no pharmacological, psychotropic or any other effect on me whatsoever."
Ifreann wrote:The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Boris Johnson also takes cannabis apparently:
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14467 ... -cannabis/"I tried it (cocaine) at university and I remember it vividly. It achieved no pharmacological, psychotropic or any other effect on me whatsoever."
So Boris snorted a line of flour.