UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[The Free Joy State]

Just in case anyone's curious, this came to my e-mail inbox this afternoon:

Dear [redacted],

Like 20,000 others in the last month, I am delighted to have joined the Liberal Democrats.

I have been overwhelmed by the positive response I have already received from existing members, and really want to thank everyone for their warm welcome.

I have known Vince Cable for almost a decade. Vince and I share very similar, liberal, social democratic values and it is those values which have driven my decision to join the team.

Even in the difficult coalition years there was more that united us than divided us. In the last three years, we have made common cause on Europe, working together for a People’s Vote and securing a delay to Brexit.

After leaving Labour, I had thought that Britain needed a new party and I believed that was what the millions of politically homeless people in Britain wanted.

I was wrong.

The local and European elections showed that people are ready to get behind the most consistent, credible, leading pro-European force in British politics. That’s the Liberal Democrats.

My own Streatham constituency voted more strongly to Remain than any other, and on May 23rd this year, Liberal Democrats topped the poll there.

I feel I can now represent my values and my community best by joining with you in the fight against Brexit, for a new politics and a fairer society.

And I want you to help grow the Liberal Democrats. I know there are millions of people out there who want to stop Brexit and share liberal, social democratic values. Will you ask them to join the Liberal Democrats today? [link removed]

I look forward to working together, and meeting many of you, in the coming months.

With best wishes,

Chuka

Chuka Umunna MP
Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament for Streatham

If I was a truly cynical person, I might suggest the clue for Chuka Umunna's political epiphany, that his future lay with the Lib Dems, lay in this line: "My own Streatham constituency voted more strongly to Remain than any other, and on May 23rd this year, Liberal Democrats topped the poll there."

But I'm not remotely cynical...

EDIT: Interesting read, though.

Although, I have to say that the new poll is kind of like asking someone on the gallows how they'd prefer to be executed.

[Hurdergaryp]

Just in case anyone's curious, this came to my e-mail inbox this afternoon:

If I was a truly cynical person, I might suggest the clue for Chuka Umunna's political epiphany, that his future lay with the Lib Dems, lay in this line: "My own Streatham constituency voted more strongly to Remain than any other, and on May 23rd this year, Liberal Democrats topped the poll there."

But I'm not remotely cynical...

EDIT: Interesting read, though.

Although, I have to say that the new poll is kind of like asking someone on the gallows how they'd prefer to be executed.

Just ready the rack and get it over with.

[Uan aa Boa]

Although, I have to say that the new poll is kind of like asking someone on the gallows how they'd prefer to be executed.

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

[Vassenor]

Although, I have to say that the new poll is kind of like asking someone on the gallows how they'd prefer to be executed.

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

Lord Buckethead for PM.

[The Archregimancy]

Although, I have to say that the new poll is kind of like asking someone on the gallows how they'd prefer to be executed.

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

I considered adding a joke seventh option, but - given NSG's political demographic - this would likely have attracted 75% of the vote; defeating the purpose.

As it is, given NSG's political demographic, Rory Stewart is likely going to romp the poll; which, from the perspective of many Brexit supporters, will still make it look like the joke 6th option won.

[The New California Republic]

And new poll...

It's like being handed a bag of different kinds of shit and being told to pick one.

[Hurdergaryp]

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

I considered adding a joke seventh option, but - given NSG's political demographic - this would likely have attracted 75% of the vote; defeating the purpose.

As it is, given NSG's political demographic, Rory Stewart is likely going to romp the poll; which, from the perspective of many Brexit supporters, will still make it look like the joke 6th option won.

You call that defeating the purpose? I respectfully disagree.

[Uan aa Boa]

You call that defeating the purpose? I respectfully disagree.

Precisely. As it is, expect the abstentions to romp it.

[Salandriagado]

Except that, you know, parliament is, by every measure, less accountable than the EU.

The EU commission members are voted for by the people. I must of missed this development.....

1. That's not what "accountability" means.
2. Since when was the Prime Minister voted for by the people?

[Bienenhalde]

So there's a Boris quote that really hasn't aged well.

Bet he tries to pretend he never said that so he doesn't have to contest an election of his own.

What a shame. Boris should have known better than to make a statement which shows such a deficient understanding of the British constitution. The prime minister is chosen by the queen and parliament, not by the people.

[Dooom35796821595]

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

I considered adding a joke seventh option, but - given NSG's political demographic - this would likely have attracted 75% of the vote; defeating the purpose.

As it is, given NSG's political demographic, Rory Stewart is likely going to romp the poll; which, from the perspective of many Brexit supporters, will still make it look like the joke 6th option won.

Are you saying Boris isn’t a joke option?!

[The Archregimancy]

You call that defeating the purpose? I respectfully disagree.

Precisely. As it is, expect the abstentions to romp it.

Well, it's not a multi-party election; it's an internal party process to choose the next party leader and in likelihood - though not absolutely certainly - the next Prime Minister. As such, most of us have absolutely no say in selecting that party leader.

Obviously the Conservative Party isn't very popular with NSG's core demographic. All the same, you can call me optimistic, but given the very narrow parameters involved, I'd like to think most of us will ultimately choose a 'lesser of six evils' poll option over the 'plague on all their houses' abstention.

[Ifreann]

So there's a Boris quote that really hasn't aged well.

Bet he tries to pretend he never said that so he doesn't have to contest an election of his own.

What a shame. Boris should have known better than to make a statement which shows such a deficient understanding of the British constitution. The prime minister is chosen by the queen and parliament, not by the people.

He did and does know better. But it suited him to pretend otherwise.

[Bienenhalde]

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

I considered adding a joke seventh option, but - given NSG's political demographic - this would likely have attracted 75% of the vote; defeating the purpose.

As it is, given NSG's political demographic, Rory Stewart is likely going to romp the poll; which, from the perspective of many Brexit supporters, will still make it look like the joke 6th option won.

Personally, I thought that Old Tyrannia would be good for the job.

[The Nihilistic view]

Agreed. I'm not voting in this unless a howl of existential despair is added as a 7th option.

I considered adding a joke seventh option, but - given NSG's political demographic - this would likely have attracted 75% of the vote; defeating the purpose.

As it is, given NSG's political demographic, Rory Stewart is likely going to romp the poll; which, from the perspective of many Brexit supporters, will still make it look like the joke 6th option won.

Well yes you need "and I am a member of the conservative party" set of options to make it interesting. But then again I wouldn't be surprised to be the only member here.

[Ostroeuropa]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service 7 days ago and Idk if anyone noticed.

He explicitly ruled out the military, but wants national projects. Part of the plan is specifically that they would not necessarily be local projects, but there would be an active effort to make young people travel the country and meet eachother while on service and doing some kind of bollocks. So the government will be like, "Right, you, fuck off to Scotland for a week and plant trees. Go on, fuck off. We'll be there to get you In a week to bus you down to Kent after that, then a couple of days later it'll be Cardiff, then back here."

It's proposed two to four weeks during the summer holidays when they turn 16.
Compulsory.

The same announcement he said he wants to plant 120 million trees.
If every person turning 16 every year plants 12 trees, we'll hit 120 million trees on that alone.

Commentators note that he's calling it national service is a blatant attempt to win the Nutter demographic, while basically proposing we scam young people into saving the environment but pretend it isn't a scam and is somehow for their benefit and maybe why the fuck not try and fix our god awful culture a bit by forcing young people of all backgrounds to meet and do something with a common goal at least once in their lives.

I fully support this proposal both as a Nutter, and as an environmentalist socialist and nationalist.

[Dooom35796821595]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service 7 days ago and Idk if anyone noticed.

He explicitly ruled out the military, but wants national projects. Part of the plan is specifically that they would not necessarily be local projects, but there would be an active effort to make young people travel the country and meet eachother while on service and doing some kind of bollocks. So the government will be like, "Right, you, fuck off to Scotland for a week and plant trees. Go on, fuck off. We'll be there to get you In a week to bus you down to Kent after that, then a couple of days later it'll be Cardiff, then back here."

It's proposed two to four weeks during the summer holidays when they turn 16.
Compulsory.

So the conservatives still have the long term plan of reopening the workhouses, good to have confirmation.

After all, only the children of wealthy landowners need an education, the rest can do “national service”. For free. For life.

[Ifreann]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service 7 days ago and Idk if anyone noticed.

He explicitly ruled out the military, but wants national projects. Part of the plan is specifically that they would not necessarily be local projects, but there would be an active effort to make young people travel the country and meet eachother while on service and doing some kind of bollocks. So the government will be like, "Right, you, fuck off to Scotland for a week and plant trees. Go on, fuck off. We'll be there to get you In a week to bus you down to Kent after that, then a couple of days later it'll be Cardiff, then back here."

It's proposed two to four weeks during the summer holidays when they turn 16.
Compulsory.

The same announcement he said he wants to plant 120 million trees.
If every person turning 16 every year plants 12 trees, we'll hit 120 million trees on that alone.

Commentators note that he's calling it national service is a blatant attempt to win the Nutter demographic, while basically proposing we scam young people into saving the environment but pretend it isn't a scam and is somehow for their benefit and maybe why the fuck not try and fix our god awful culture a bit by forcing young people of all backgrounds to meet and do something with a common goal at least once in their lives.

I fully support this proposal both as a Nutter, and as an environmentalist socialist and nationalist.

Is this only for boys like in every other country? Or is rory stewart managed to temper his bullshit policy with a small bit of non-bullshit?

[Ostroeuropa]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service 7 days ago and Idk if anyone noticed.

He explicitly ruled out the military, but wants national projects. Part of the plan is specifically that they would not necessarily be local projects, but there would be an active effort to make young people travel the country and meet eachother while on service and doing some kind of bollocks. So the government will be like, "Right, you, fuck off to Scotland for a week and plant trees. Go on, fuck off. We'll be there to get you In a week to bus you down to Kent after that, then a couple of days later it'll be Cardiff, then back here."

It's proposed two to four weeks during the summer holidays when they turn 16.
Compulsory.

The same announcement he said he wants to plant 120 million trees.
If every person turning 16 every year plants 12 trees, we'll hit 120 million trees on that alone.

Commentators note that he's calling it national service is a blatant attempt to win the Nutter demographic, while basically proposing we scam young people into saving the environment but pretend it isn't a scam and is somehow for their benefit and maybe why the fuck not try and fix our god awful culture a bit by forcing young people of all backgrounds to meet and do something with a common goal at least once in their lives.

I fully support this proposal both as a Nutter, and as an environmentalist socialist and nationalist.

Is this only for boys like in every other country? Or is rory stewart managed to temper his bullshit policy with a small bit of non-bullshit?

It'd be everyone.

[Bienenhalde]

Rory Stewart committed to reintroduce national service 7 days ago and Idk if anyone noticed.

He explicitly ruled out the military, but wants national projects. Part of the plan is specifically that they would not necessarily be local projects, but there would be an active effort to make young people travel the country and meet eachother while on service and doing some kind of bollocks. So the government will be like, "Right, you, fuck off to Scotland for a week and plant trees. Go on, fuck off. We'll be there to get you In a week to bus you down to Kent after that, then a couple of days later it'll be Cardiff, then back here."

It's proposed two to four weeks during the summer holidays when they turn 16.
Compulsory.

The same announcement he said he wants to plant 120 million trees.
If every person turning 16 every year plants 12 trees, we'll hit 120 million trees on that alone.

Commentators note that he's calling it national service is a blatant attempt to win the Nutter demographic, while basically proposing we scam young people into saving the environment but pretend it isn't a scam and is somehow for their benefit and maybe why the fuck not try and fix our god awful culture a bit by forcing young people of all backgrounds to meet and do something with a common goal at least once in their lives.

I fully support this proposal both as a Nutter, and as an environmentalist socialist and nationalist.

Sounds like a fine idea to me.

[Ostroeuropa]

Hong Kong is demanding the UK honor its obligation to ensure their liberty is protected.

At first I thought this was basically them trolling us with such a ridiculous demand when it's obvious the most we could do is maybe, maybe, maybe, get some trade sanctions going.

But really, we could do much more if we felt like it.

China lacks a blue water navy and intercontinental missile capabilities.

We could blockade the place relatively simply without much China could do about it beyond putting diplomatic and economic pressure on us, and our navy would be beyond their reach, while their Navy would be sunk in the bays if it remains, or sunk with casualties if it tries to engage.

Their airforce is large but not large enough to tip the scales in their favor in an ocean environment, and they risk losing personelle if they engage in the ocean in a similar dynamic to the battle of Britain. (our pilots get recovered, theirs don't.).

We could not realistically protect hong kong directly, but placing military pressure on china is doable without risk to the homeland or much risk to our navy.

Coastal bombardment would also force the Chinese population inland and cause massive societal and economic disruption. We could alert them to the fact this will occur to "minimize civilian casualties.", though realistically millions will die as a result of the economic disruption.

China may well be a paper tiger tbh. A land army means nothing in practical terms.

A humiliation of this sort would also risk the communist government collapsing entirely.

Hypothetically, I would suggest independence for the Ughyur region along with arming them to revolt, a free Tibet, annexation of hong kong to the UK and/or Taiwan, and installation of Taiwan if possible.

Further, if China managed to convince any European or the US to intervene on their behalf, the entire intervention fails. If we obtain backup however, either from an Islamic invasion of the Ughyur territory or a western coalition, China would probably lose very badly. Denied air superiority and a navy, the Chinese massive land army would simply be lambs to the slaughter in modern warfare.

Realistically, we don't give a shit enough to bother and we have our hands tied right now. I just find it interesting to note that this dynamic is the case.

A blue water navy is very important, it would seem.

A European coalition with perhaps Islamic support would be the best option for the above. I wouldn't trust the Americans not to try a land invasion before that is appropriate.

Casus belli:
Genocide of the Ugyhur
Violation of Hong kong treaty
International bullying to deny Taiwan recognition of legitimacy and independence
Decades of intellectual property violations ($$$, gib reperations.)
COMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. COOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. WWRRRRYYYY
https://youtu.be/4quwGch9jLg

And so on.

[Old Tyrannia]

I find myself warming to Rory Stewart, although I'm wary of his Brexit policy. On the other hand Theresa May also started out saying encouraging things about one nation conservatism and working for ordinary people, and nothing ever came of that. I doubt that the foaming-at-the-mouth Thatcherites in the party will stand idly by whilst their leader tries to implement actually conservative and patriotic policies.

[Fartsniffage]

Hong Kong is demanding the UK honor its obligation to ensure their liberty is protected.

At first I thought this was basically them trolling us with such a ridiculous demand when it's obvious the most we could do is maybe, maybe, maybe, get some trade sanctions going.

But really, we could do much more if we felt like it.

China lacks a blue water navy and intercontinental missile capabilities.

We could blockade the place relatively simply without much China could do about it beyond putting diplomatic and economic pressure on us, and our navy would be beyond their reach, while their Navy would be sunk in the bays if it remains, or sunk with casualties if it tries to engage.

Their airforce is large but not large enough to tip the scales in their favor in an ocean environment, and they risk losing personelle if they engage in the ocean in a similar dynamic to the battle of Britain. (our pilots get recovered, theirs don't.).

We could not realistically protect hong kong directly, but placing military pressure on china is doable without risk to the homeland or much risk to our navy.

Coastal bombardment would also force the Chinese population inland and cause massive societal and economic disruption. We could alert them to the fact this will occur to "minimize civilian casualties.", though realistically millions will die as a result of the economic disruption.

China may well be a paper tiger tbh. A land army means nothing in practical terms.

A humiliation of this sort would also risk the communist government collapsing entirely.

Hypothetically, I would suggest independence for the Ughyur region along with arming them to revolt, a free Tibet, annexation of hong kong to the UK and/or Taiwan, and installation of Taiwan if possible.

Further, if China managed to convince any European or the US to intervene on their behalf, the entire intervention fails. If we obtain backup however, either from an Islamic invasion of the Ughyur territory or a western coalition, China would probably lose very badly. Denied air superiority and a navy, the Chinese massive land army would simply be lambs to the slaughter in modern warfare.

Realistically, we don't give a shit enough to bother and we have our hands tied right now. I just find it interesting to note that this dynamic is the case.

A blue water navy is very important, it would seem.

A European coalition with perhaps Islamic support would be the best option for the above. I wouldn't trust the Americans not to try a land invasion before that is appropriate.

Casus belli:
Genocide of the Ugyhur
Violation of Hong kong treaty
International bullying to deny Taiwan recognition of legitimacy and independence
Decades of intellectual property violations ($$$, gib reperations.)

And so on.

No no no no no.

China has a regional force projection navy. And it's hella bigger than ours. It has more frigates alone than we have large surface or submerged vessels combined.

[Ostroeuropa]

Hong Kong is demanding the UK honor its obligation to ensure their liberty is protected.

At first I thought this was basically them trolling us with such a ridiculous demand when it's obvious the most we could do is maybe, maybe, maybe, get some trade sanctions going.

But really, we could do much more if we felt like it.

China lacks a blue water navy and intercontinental missile capabilities.

We could blockade the place relatively simply without much China could do about it beyond putting diplomatic and economic pressure on us, and our navy would be beyond their reach, while their Navy would be sunk in the bays if it remains, or sunk with casualties if it tries to engage.

Their airforce is large but not large enough to tip the scales in their favor in an ocean environment, and they risk losing personelle if they engage in the ocean in a similar dynamic to the battle of Britain. (our pilots get recovered, theirs don't.).

We could not realistically protect hong kong directly, but placing military pressure on china is doable without risk to the homeland or much risk to our navy.

Coastal bombardment would also force the Chinese population inland and cause massive societal and economic disruption. We could alert them to the fact this will occur to "minimize civilian casualties.", though realistically millions will die as a result of the economic disruption.

China may well be a paper tiger tbh. A land army means nothing in practical terms.

A humiliation of this sort would also risk the communist government collapsing entirely.

Hypothetically, I would suggest independence for the Ughyur region along with arming them to revolt, a free Tibet, annexation of hong kong to the UK and/or Taiwan, and installation of Taiwan if possible.

Further, if China managed to convince any European or the US to intervene on their behalf, the entire intervention fails. If we obtain backup however, either from an Islamic invasion of the Ughyur territory or a western coalition, China would probably lose very badly. Denied air superiority and a navy, the Chinese massive land army would simply be lambs to the slaughter in modern warfare.

Realistically, we don't give a shit enough to bother and we have our hands tied right now. I just find it interesting to note that this dynamic is the case.

A blue water navy is very important, it would seem.

A European coalition with perhaps Islamic support would be the best option for the above. I wouldn't trust the Americans not to try a land invasion before that is appropriate.

Casus belli:
Genocide of the Ugyhur
Violation of Hong kong treaty
International bullying to deny Taiwan recognition of legitimacy and independence
Decades of intellectual property violations ($$$, gib reperations.)

And so on.

No no no no no.

China has a regional force projection navy. And it's hella bigger than ours. It has more frigates alone than we have large surface or submerged vessels combined.

What's the extent of that region and does that particularly matter compared to bluewater capabilities?