UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Thats not what I said. To clarify when I said dangerous person I was referring to Boris Johnson. I did not mean all white people are dangerous.

Then why didnt you say Boris Johnson? Thats a very important piece of context information when you make a statement like that, because as far as i am concerned the only way to read that statement without that context is you referring to white people alone.

Your reading is straight up wrong. God knows, San Lumen is bad at communicating, but in this case he's right. That's not what he said. As in, there's no way to correctly read this information to come to the conclusion that he was referring to white people in general as dangerous.

Look. We've got:

a) the four people who could realistically be PM are all white men
b) the PM could very well be "one of the most dangerous people in the UK"

So, since the "very well" bit means there remains a possibility of it not being the most dangerous person, the category "most dangerous people" cannot include all four candidates. And since all the candidates are white men, he is by necessity not saying that all white men=the most dangerous people in the UK.

I know I'm being a bit pedantic here, but if you're going to insist on telling someone that they said something offensive, you'd better be damn sure they said that. You're being a bit of a snowflake here. Very eager to take offence.

[Chan Island]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

You can't link to pornhub on these forums mate.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

I mean, it's not of immediate relevance to Brexit or anything, but the white maleness of the field could be worth discussing in the same way it might be worth discussing that two out of four of them went to public school. If a given demographic is disproportionately represented in a field (or in prisons, or among people suffering from mental illness, or in big budget sci-fi films or whatever) it might just be worth discussing, because, I dunno, maybe there's some kind of systemic injustice causing that.

Although, on a side note, while Raab is white, his father was Jewish, so he is arguably part of an ethnic minority. There is a little nuance here, but we can't exactly discuss that if you start swearing your head off the moment someone says the words "white" and "man".

I suggest not mentioning race or class cause it does rub off as a little... socialist , because should we not be judged on one ability not wealth or class... that was a very long winded way of saying we need to make a meritocracy

Oh, God, really? I'm so embarrassed; I really didn't want to come off as socialist.

Ugh, now you've got me worried. Do you think my Labour Party membership makes me look socialist as well? Might have to cancel it.

[Novus America]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

Assuming the actual election ends up like that, how the heck is anyone putting together a working coalition?

[Fartsniffage]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

Assuming the actual election ends up like that, how the heck is anyone putting together a working coalition?

Labour - Lib Dem.

[Dresderstan]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

Assuming the actual election ends up like that, how the heck is anyone putting together a working coalition?

I would say a left wing coalition of the Lib-Lab pact, but I hate imagining the Lib Dems back in power, same with Labour, but if that could be one coalition outcome. And it's just with FPTP, they even have a PR version which I could see the Lib-Lab pact with the Greens and Change UK.

[Ostroeuropa]

Assuming the actual election ends up like that, how the heck is anyone putting together a working coalition?

Labour - Lib Dem.

Lib-LAB-SNP

Is most likely imo.

1. Cancel Brexit/Referendum
2. Abolish FPTP
3. General Election

I saw someone suggest Lib Dem - Brex

Which would be hilarious. That would once and for all confirm our country is fucked in the head and nobody knows what to do.

Just imagine it. Lib Dem leaders come out to tell a furious crowd that they didn't win a majority and so have to compromise with other parties, and then the two enter negotiations on how to handle Brexit, and just piss away yet another extension.

[Fartsniffage]

Labour - Lib Dem.

Lib-LAB-SNP

Is most likely imo.

1. Cancel Brexit/Referendum
2. Abolish FPTP
3. General Election

I saw someone suggest Lib Dem - Brex

Which would be hilarious. That would once and for all confirm our country is fucked in the head and nobody knows what to do.

Change the map to PR system and see why that coalition wouldn't touch 2 with a barge pole.

[Ostroeuropa]

Lib-LAB-SNP

Is most likely imo.

1. Cancel Brexit/Referendum
2. Abolish FPTP
3. General Election

I saw someone suggest Lib Dem - Brex

Which would be hilarious. That would once and for all confirm our country is fucked in the head and nobody knows what to do.

Change the map to PR system and see why that coalition wouldn't touch 3 with a barge pole.

Because they'd have to invite the greens in too?
It's not really that different.

[Fartsniffage]

Change the map to PR system and see why that coalition wouldn't touch 3 with a barge pole.

Because they'd have to invite the greens in too?
It's not really that different.

Brexit party wins. They get first chance to create the new government.

And I edited from 3 to 2. because that was what I meant.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because they'd have to invite the greens in too?
It's not really that different.

Brexit party wins. They get first chance to create the new government.

And I edited from 3 to 2. because that was what I meant.

The incumbent gets the first chance to create the new government, not the one with most seats. Remember Gordon Brown?

The only reason i'm not entertaining that result here under either system until after Lib-Lab-SNP is elected is the Tories would be a double-digit party and nobody would take them seriously if they even attempted to pretend they could form a government, since they would be the minority partner in any arrangement. (at least with Brown, it was the smaller of the two major parties trying to find a minority partner.).

They would technically have the right to try, but who would take them seriously?

[Fartsniffage]

Brexit party wins. They get first chance to create the new government.

And I edited from 3 to 2. because that was what I meant.

The incumbent gets the first chance to create the new government, not the one with most seats. Remember Gordon Brown?

Actually, no. I'm apparently wrong about that. Sorry.

[Ostroeuropa]

The incumbent gets the first chance to create the new government, not the one with most seats. Remember Gordon Brown?

Actually, no. I'm apparently wrong about that. Sorry.

It's alright, it's a ridiculous system and not intuitive.

[Fartsniffage]

Actually, no. I'm apparently wrong about that. Sorry.

It's alright, it's a ridiculous system and not intuitive.

Maybe, but I have a BA in Politics...

[Ostroeuropa]

The real danger is, would the Lib Dems cuck the country again and join a Con-BREX coalition if they got promised a referendum on ATV, a discussion on house of lords reform, and a pat on the head from the Tory Prime minister for saving everyone from the dangers of socialism.

"We'll just put out a video telling remainers we're sorry. It'll be fine.".

[Fartsniffage]

The real danger is, would the Lib Dems cuck the country again and join a Con-BREX coalition if they got promised a referendum on ATV and a pat on the head from the Tory Prime minister.

"We'll just put out a video telling remainers we're sorry. It'll be fine.".

Not a chance. The student loans debacle is still very current.

[Ostroeuropa]

The real danger is, would the Lib Dems cuck the country again and join a Con-BREX coalition if they got promised a referendum on ATV and a pat on the head from the Tory Prime minister.

"We'll just put out a video telling remainers we're sorry. It'll be fine.".

Not a chance. The student loans debacle is still very current.

Idk man. They're Liberals. Every fiber of my being Is telling me they'll sooner side with the Tories than a socialist.

[San Lumen]

Yougov swaggering in with the most gloriously WTF map prediction yet.

I dont see how anyone gets a working coalition with a map like that.

[Fartsniffage]

Not a chance. The student loans debacle is still very current.

Idk man. They're Liberals. Every fiber of my being Is telling me they'll sooner side with the Tories than a socialist.

Brexit is what matter right now. And Corbyn is slightly more pro EU than Rees-Mogg. I think they'd go that way, at least in the short term.

[Novus America]

Assuming the actual election ends up like that, how the heck is anyone putting together a working coalition?

Labour - Lib Dem.

Considering how far apart they are on economic issues and even Brexit (Lib Dema clearly against, Labour desperately trying not to make real decision I do not think that is an easy coalition to actually pass something with a majority.
Especially with voters being so volatile and willing to jump ship.
Too much compromise (possibly much at all) means you lose a big chunk of your voters.

There is still a substantial anti Brexit portion in the Labour Party to deal with.

A Lib Dem Labour coalition could see them simply switch to Brexit Party.

That is not even getting into the economic issues.
Corbyn knows he needs to push through major changes for his base, if he compromises on that the far left of his party jumps to the Greens.

Plus the real possibility Corbyn tries an economic policy contrary to the EU rules. Corbyn realizes his economic promises and staying in the EU is very difficult.
Many of his supporters think the can eat his nationalization cake and keep the EU too.
What happens when the realize the two might be irreconcilable?
Which do they choose?

[San Lumen]

Labour - Lib Dem.

Considering how far apart they are on economic issues and even Brexit (Lib Dema clearly against, Labour desperately trying not to make real decision I do not think that is an easy coalition to actually pass something with a majority.
Especially with voters being so volatile and willing to jump ship.
Too much compromise (possibly much at all) means you lose a big chunk of your voters.

There is still a substantial anti Brexit portion in the Labour Party to deal with.

A Lib Dem Labour coalition could see them simply switch to Brexit Party.

That is not even getting into the economic issues.
Corbyn knows he needs to push through major changes for his base, if he compromises on that the far left of his party jumps to the Greens.

Plus the real possibility Corbyn tries an economic policy contrary to the EU rules. Corbyn realizes his economic promises and staying in the EU is very difficult.
Many of his supporters think the can eat his nationalization cake and keep the EU too.
What happens when the realize the two might be irreconcilable?
Which do they choose?

I dont see how any party is forming a coalition based on current polling much less getting a majority

[Ostroeuropa]

Labour - Lib Dem.

Considering how far apart they are on economic issues and even Brexit (Lib Dema clearly against, Labour desperately trying not to make real decision I do not think that is an easy coalition to actually pass something with a majority.
Especially with voters being so volatile and willing to jump ship.
Too much compromise (possibly much at all) means you lose a big chunk of your voters.

There is still a substantial anti Brexit portion in the Labour Party to deal with.

A Lib Dem Labour coalition could see them simply switch to Brexit Party.

That is not even getting into the economic issues.
Corbyn knows he needs to push through major changes for his base, if he compromises on that the far left of his party jumps to the Greens.

Labour is coming out in favor of a second referendum after the EU election.

As for economic issues, that's a bigger issue, but it'd probably be workable if the reforms are focused on certain areas like education and welfare rather than rail and rent.

LD's and Labour overlap on social democracy like education, environment, NHS and so on. Its Labour being all "And we should nationalize the railways and do land reform and tax landlords, as well as set up a public bank" and so on where the LDs would disagree.

So they either do a government where they just do the shit they agree on, or they start trading issue for issue on shit they disagree on. For LDs that's going to be stuff like;

"Don't spy on the population and what the fuck is all this police state nonsense"

and for Labour that's going to be;

"Can we just eat SOME of the rich?"

If I was Corbyn i'd go for the LD coalition, act all "Oh noes the silly libs are making me deconstruct the police state sorry authoritarians in my own party who push this shit in collaboration with the Tories, oh well!" and in exchange i'd get the Lib Dems to be all; "Oh noes, those rascal socialists in the Labour party are making us close all the overseas territories tax havens. Sorry all you neoliberal types."

So it'd be a coalition of shit we agree on, and shit we secretly agree on but can't admit openly because the barbarians are inside the walls so to speak.

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48468241

And now there are 12th. One more and we get to have a dinner then crucify one of them, as is the law.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48468241

And now there are 12th. One more and we get to have a dinner then crucify one of them, as is the law.

Chaos with Ed Miliband.

I can't believe that meme, it just keeps on giving.