UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[West Leas Oros 2]

It sorta was both, but I don't think it came across clearly. Oh well, that'll teach me to drink at lunchtime.

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.

If not fascist, what are AfD?

[Ostroeuropa]

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.

If not fascist, what are AfD?

Fascism is opposed to democracy as a system of government. You can't have democratic fascism.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

One of the latter polls - the Survation poll putting the Brexit Party at 12% - also happens to come from the company that came closest to predicting the 2017 General Election result (though they were also the worst in 2015).

People voting Green or Brexit Party have to select 'Other' in Survation polls. There's a reason they're an outlier.

[Thermodolia]

One of the latter polls - the Survation poll putting the Brexit Party at 12% - also happens to come from the company that came closest to predicting the 2017 General Election result (though they were also the worst in 2015).

People voting Green or Brexit Party have to select 'Other' in Survation polls. There's a reason they're an outlier.

Dude there’s literally options for Green and Brexit in Survation polls. The proof is literally in the post you quoted. Also survation isn’t the outlier, the one you originally posted is. You can look at wiki and see that there’s only one polling company who gives Brexit high polling

[Fartsniffage]

People voting Green or Brexit Party have to select 'Other' in Survation polls. There's a reason they're an outlier.

Dude there’s literally options for Green and Brexit in Survation polls. The proof is literally in the post you quoted. Also survation isn’t the outlier, the one you originally posted is. You can look at wiki and see that there’s only one polling company who gives Brexit high polling

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Euro ... nion_polls

[Thermodolia]

Dude there’s literally options for Green and Brexit in Survation polls. The proof is literally in the post you quoted. Also survation isn’t the outlier, the one you originally posted is. You can look at wiki and see that there’s only one polling company who gives Brexit high polling

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Euro ... nion_polls

GE poll dude. That’s what started this

[Novus America]

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.

If not fascist, what are AfD?

A right populist party.
Not all right populists are fascists.

They have not called for a one party corporatist state.

[Philjia]

It sorta was both, but I don't think it came across clearly. Oh well, that'll teach me to drink at lunchtime.

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.

Quite right. They are, of course, crypto fascists.

[Fartsniffage]

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Euro ... nion_polls

GE poll dude. That’s what started this

Ah, sorry.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Since she is fucking off can she take that reject Karen Bradley with her.

[Pope Joan]

Now that May has gone, what will the new scenario be? Some analysts predict a plethora of new parties, each with its own key issue and unique brand. No more broad commonality of interest.

But others say that the old left-right format is too deeply ingrained to resist quick change, and we will be left with reformulated versions of the old formulae,

It reminds me of Iolanthe:

I often think it's comical – Fal, lal, la!
How Nature always does contrive – Fal, lal, la!
That every boy and every gal
That’s born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative!
Fal, lal, la!

When in that House M.P.'s divide,
If they’ve a brain and cerebellum, too,
They’ve got to leave that brain outside,
And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to.
But then the prospect of a lot
Of dull M. P.’s in close proximity,
All thinking for themselves, is what
No man can face with equanimity.
Then let’s rejoice with loud Fal la – Fal la la!
That Nature always does contrive – Fal lal la!
That every boy and every gal
That’s born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative!
Fal lal la!

[Vassenor]

Now that May has gone, what will the new scenario be?

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.

Quite right. They are, of course, crypto fascists.

Having just glanced at their Wikipedia page, I think they're doing a very bad job of the crypto part of that.

[Ostroeuropa]

Rory Stewart is the best candidate we're likely to see, and I hope he wins the leadership contest.

He's a good speaker, charismatic. This is acknowledged even by his detractors, he has a way with words.

He's campaigned against the impacts of austerity on emergency services in his constituency and that might serve him well, but he also backed NIMBYs there and helped them block wind farm introduction, which might be an issue. However, he's also been very pro animal and wildlife conservation, so that one could be a wash. His "Hedgehog speech" to parliament was hailed as the best speech in 2015 by most of his peers.

He can spin himself as pro-tech and pro-futurism because of his focus on expanding mobile and wifi coverage and general infrastructure. (Probably due to his credentials in international development).

He spoke out against poverty and austerity. (Albeit, in a Tory fashion) more broadly, noting that the governments policy had ravaged rural areas and his constituents appeared destitute and "Holding up their trousers with twine", which apparently pissed some of htem off for making them look like hicks, but was probably a genuine displeasure at the poverty.

He's secured more cross party support for back-bencher proposals than any of the other candidates.

He's also pushed things like laws which would force mail, phone, wifi and so on companies to aim for full coverage of the population by law, regardless of profit.

He's done documentaries about the old northern kingdoms of England and seems a fan of history in general. He built a Cairne on the border between England and Scotland when the indepedndence referendum was defeated, asking for people from each nation to inscribe messages of love for the other nation on the bricks laid into the cairne as a monument to the union for future generations to look back on.

He pissed off his superiors when as "Minister for floods" he "Overspent" on flood defenses in what they accused him of being "A political calculation", which he claimed was just what the experts told him needed to be spent. So take that how you will.

He introduced the plastic bag tax.

He's also responsible for the first 25 year plan for environmental conservation the government has ever put out, emphasizing bio-diversity and balanced ecosystems, the importance of the environment to human culture, and so on.

He lobbied the government for, and secured, more funding for national parks, and expanded the lake districts as well as got them listed as UNESCO world heritage sites.

As Prison minister, and this is not to be ignored, he primarily told the government that he was going to:
Fix prison windows, and have the prisons cleaned.
This is because, shockingly, this was not being done.

He pushed the bill through parliament which doubled the prison sentence for crimes against people attacking emergency service personelle, and introduced sexual assault as being an aggravating factor for a crime.

He's a soft-brexiter too.

All round, pretty good for a Tory. Problem is, he'll be running a government of tories, and that'll piss away any good qualities he has.

[Fartsniffage]

Rory Stewart is the best candidate we're likely to see, and I hope he wins the leadership contest.

He's a good speaker, charismatic. This is acknowledged even by his detractors, he has a way with words.

He's campaigned against the impacts of austerity on emergency services in his constituency and that might serve him well, but he also backed NIMBYs there and helped them block wind farm introduction, which might be an issue. However, he's also been very pro animal and wildlife conservation, so that one could be a wash. His "Hedgehog speech" to parliament was hailed as the best speech in 2015 by most of his peers.

He can spin himself as pro-tech and pro-futurism because of his focus on expanding mobile and wifi coverage and general infrastructure. (Probably due to his credentials in international development).

He spoke out against poverty and austerity. (Albeit, in a Tory fashion) more broadly, noting that the governments policy had ravaged rural areas and his constituents appeared destitute and "Holding up their trousers with twine", which apparently pissed some of htem off for making them look like hicks, but was probably a genuine displeasure at the poverty.

He's secured more cross party support for back-bencher proposals than any of the other candidates.

He's also pushed things like laws which would force mail, phone, wifi and so on companies to aim for full coverage of the population by law, regardless of profit.

He's done documentaries about the old northern kingdoms of England and seems a fan of history in general. He built a Cairne on the border between England and Scotland when the indepedndence referendum was defeated, asking for people from each nation to inscribe messages of love for the other nation on the bricks laid into the cairne as a monument to the union for future generations to look back on.

He pissed off his superiors when as "Minister for floods" he "Overspent" on flood defenses in what they accused him of being "A political calculation", which he claimed was just what the experts told him needed to be spent. So take that how you will.

He introduced the plastic bag tax.

He's also responsible for the first 25 year plan for environmental conservation the government has ever put out, emphasizing bio-diversity and balanced ecosystems, the importance of the environment to human culture, and so on.

He lobbied the government for, and secured, more funding for national parks, and expanded the lake districts as well as got them listed as UNESCO world heritage sites.

As Prison minister, and this is not to be ignored, he primarily told the government that he was going to:
Fix prison windows, and have the prisons cleaned.
This is because, shockingly, this was not being done.

He pushed the bill through parliament which doubled the prison sentence for crimes against people attacking emergency service personelle, and introduced sexual assault as being an aggravating factor for a crime.

He's a soft-brexiter too.

All round, pretty good for a Tory. Problem is, he'll be running a government of tories, and that'll piss away any good qualities he has.

He also worked to broker peace between rival factions in several Iraqi regions, and headed an NGO working to restore power and infrastructure in Kabul.

With that in his CV he might actually stand a chance getting the Tory party to work together for 5 minutes...

[Ifreann]

Quite right. They are, of course, crypto fascists.

Having just glanced at their Wikipedia page, I think they're doing a very bad job of the crypto part of that.

It's a delicate balance. Too crypto and the fascists won't vote for you.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Rory Stewart is the best candidate we're likely to see, and I hope he wins the leadership contest.

He's a good speaker, charismatic. This is acknowledged even by his detractors, he has a way with words.

He's campaigned against the impacts of austerity on emergency services in his constituency and that might serve him well, but he also backed NIMBYs there and helped them block wind farm introduction, which might be an issue. However, he's also been very pro animal and wildlife conservation, so that one could be a wash. His "Hedgehog speech" to parliament was hailed as the best speech in 2015 by most of his peers.

He can spin himself as pro-tech and pro-futurism because of his focus on expanding mobile and wifi coverage and general infrastructure. (Probably due to his credentials in international development).

He spoke out against poverty and austerity. (Albeit, in a Tory fashion) more broadly, noting that the governments policy had ravaged rural areas and his constituents appeared destitute and "Holding up their trousers with twine", which apparently pissed some of htem off for making them look like hicks, but was probably a genuine displeasure at the poverty.

He's secured more cross party support for back-bencher proposals than any of the other candidates.

He's also pushed things like laws which would force mail, phone, wifi and so on companies to aim for full coverage of the population by law, regardless of profit.

He's done documentaries about the old northern kingdoms of England and seems a fan of history in general. He built a Cairne on the border between England and Scotland when the indepedndence referendum was defeated, asking for people from each nation to inscribe messages of love for the other nation on the bricks laid into the cairne as a monument to the union for future generations to look back on.

He pissed off his superiors when as "Minister for floods" he "Overspent" on flood defenses in what they accused him of being "A political calculation", which he claimed was just what the experts told him needed to be spent. So take that how you will.

He introduced the plastic bag tax.

He's also responsible for the first 25 year plan for environmental conservation the government has ever put out, emphasizing bio-diversity and balanced ecosystems, the importance of the environment to human culture, and so on.

He lobbied the government for, and secured, more funding for national parks, and expanded the lake districts as well as got them listed as UNESCO world heritage sites.

As Prison minister, and this is not to be ignored, he primarily told the government that he was going to:
Fix prison windows, and have the prisons cleaned.
This is because, shockingly, this was not being done.

He pushed the bill through parliament which doubled the prison sentence for crimes against people attacking emergency service personelle, and introduced sexual assault as being an aggravating factor for a crime.

He's a soft-brexiter too.

All round, pretty good for a Tory. Problem is, he'll be running a government of tories, and that'll piss away any good qualities he has.

He also worked to broker peace between rival factions in several Iraqi regions, and headed an NGO working to restore power and infrastructure in Kabul.

With that in his CV he might actually stand a chance getting the Tory party to work together for 5 minutes...

They're the Tories though.

[Fartsniffage]

He also worked to broker peace between rival factions in several Iraqi regions, and headed an NGO working to restore power and infrastructure in Kabul.

With that in his CV he might actually stand a chance getting the Tory party to work together for 5 minutes...

They're the Tories though.

I did say might...

[Ostroeuropa]

They're the Tories though.

I did say might...

To be fair it'd say a lot about the state of the Tory party if it turns out to be even less of a natural grouping of people than the fucking country of Iraq. At that point we're basically admitting partition is necessary for them to stop being a problem

[Fartsniffage]

I did say might...

To be fair it'd say a lot about the state of the Tory party if it turns out to be even less of a natural grouping of people than the fucking country of Iraq. At that point we're basically admitting partition is necessary for them to stop being a problem

Sectarian violence is just bloody. Politics is far more vicious. Politics leaves your victim alive to know they've been beaten.

[Philjia]

Since it was brought up on HIGNFY, and nobody else has yet, I'd like to draw attention to Jacob Rees-Mogg's very badly recieved book on notable Victorians. This section from the review in the New Statesman is particularly striking:

To name the most glaringly obvious omissions: there are no scientists (not even Darwin), no artists (not even Turner), no engineers (not even Brunel), no trade unionists (not even Robert Owen, or Annie Besant, champion of the striking match-girls of 1888), no educators (not even Thomas Arnold, one of Strachey’s subjects), no sociologists (not even Beatrice Webb), no explorers (not even Livingstone, let alone Isabella Bird), no writers (not even George Eliot, or Charles Dickens, or Anthony Trollope), no poets (not even Alfred Tennyson, not to mention Christina Rossetti), no doctors (not even John Snow, the pioneering researcher into cholera, or Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, who opened up the field of medicine to women), and no feminists (not even Millicent Garrett Fawcett, the pioneer of women’s suffrage, or Josephine Butler, despite the fact that as far as more than half the population was concerned, these and other women like them were the real titans who forged modern Britain).

While it was never likely that Mogg would ever pay much attention to social reformers, failure to mention any engineers or scientists in a book dedicated to talking up the era commonly associated with Britain's industrialisation is fascinatingly myopic. Engineers are the ones that gave Britain the technological might needed to construct the empire that Mogg is so proud of, and developed world changing ideas and inventions that are still in use in some form today. The fixation on privileged upper class bastards also speaks to something of a disregard for the exceedingly important conservative idea of diligent self improvement. George Stephenson was born not far from where I live. I've stood in the room where he was born, the kitchen of a typically cramped mine worker's cottage that would have housed four families. Both of his parents were illiterate. He taught himself the science and engineering skills that allowed him to secure a well paid job as an engineer, which gave him the necessary funding to privately educate his son Robert, and develop a miner's safety lamp, for which he initially earned little except accusations of stealing the idea from Sir Humphrey Davy, due to prejudice against his northern, working class background. (There is a theory people from Tyneside call themselves "Geordies" because of the widespread use of his lamp, which was called a Geordie Lamp) His later involvement in their design and construction led to his earning the moniker "Father of the Railways" and regarded in Victorian society as a great example of how an individual can uplift themselves. If men like Stephenson don't exist to Mogg in his natural habitat of the past, what chance do they have of being noticed by him if he attains higher office?

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Since it was brought up on HIGNFY, and nobody else has yet, I'd like to draw attention to Jacob Rees-Mogg's very badly recieved book on notable Victorians. This section from the review in the New Statesman is particularly striking:

To name the most glaringly obvious omissions: there are no scientists (not even Darwin), no artists (not even Turner), no engineers (not even Brunel), no trade unionists (not even Robert Owen, or Annie Besant, champion of the striking match-girls of 1888), no educators (not even Thomas Arnold, one of Strachey’s subjects), no sociologists (not even Beatrice Webb), no explorers (not even Livingstone, let alone Isabella Bird), no writers (not even George Eliot, or Charles Dickens, or Anthony Trollope), no poets (not even Alfred Tennyson, not to mention Christina Rossetti), no doctors (not even John Snow, the pioneering researcher into cholera, or Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, who opened up the field of medicine to women), and no feminists (not even Millicent Garrett Fawcett, the pioneer of women’s suffrage, or Josephine Butler, despite the fact that as far as more than half the population was concerned, these and other women like them were the real titans who forged modern Britain).

While it was never likely that Mogg would ever pay much attention to social reformers, failure to mention any engineers or scientists in a book dedicated to talking up the era commonly associated with Britain's industrialisation is fascinatingly myopic. Engineers are the ones that gave Britain the technological might needed to construct the empire that Mogg is so proud of, and developed world changing ideas and inventions that are still in use in some form today. The fixation on privileged upper class bastards also speaks to something of a disregard for the exceedingly important conservative idea of diligent self improvement. George Stephenson was born not far from where I live. I've stood in the room where he was born, the kitchen of a typically cramped mine worker's cottage that would have housed four families. Both of his parents were illiterate. He taught himself the science and engineering skills that allowed him to secure a well paid job as an engineer, which gave him the necessary funding to privately educate his son Robert, and develop a miner's safety lamp, for which he initially earned little except accusations of stealing the idea from Sir Humphrey Davy, due to prejudice against his northern, working class background. (There is a theory people from Tyneside call themselves "Geordies" because of the widespread use of his lamp, which was called a Geordie Lamp) His later involvement in their design and construction led to his earning the moniker "Father of the Railways" and regarded in Victorian society as a great example of how an individual can uplift themselves. If men like Stephenson don't exist to Mogg in his natural habitat of the past, what chance do they have of being noticed by him if he attains higher office?

I just read that New Statesman article and...wow. Just wow.

[Ifreann]

Since it was brought up on HIGNFY...

[TW] Jess Phillips.

[Philjia]

Rory Stewart is the best candidate we're likely to see, and I hope he wins the leadership contest.

Useless local MP though, according to my grandma.

Being subjected to Guy "Photo-Opperman" Opperman MP may soften her attitude, though.

[Bienenhalde]

Lib Dems were at the bottom of mine lol.

It's not a bad quiz, given that I voted Green this morning as a tactical vote in the hopes they might be able to take a seat that otherwise would have gone to the Lib Dems.

Why in the name of tea and queuing we chose this stupid electoral system rather than STV...sure we could still get the count done by Sunday.

Voting Green to own the libs?