UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Ifreann]

No, she'll continue to be PM until(and unless) someone else is voted into the position by Parliament.

How does the process work? Do people declare they are running and then whoever gets the most votes in Parliament becomes PM?

No. The Tories will internally choose a new leader and that person will be voted in as PM by the Tories and DUP.

[Philjia]

How does the process work? Do people declare they are running and then whoever gets the most votes in Parliament becomes PM?

No. The Tories will internally choose a new leader and that person will be voted in as PM by the Tories and DUP.

No, the they'll be invited to form a government by the Queen in their capacity as leader of the largest party.

[Philjia]

In other news, nominations have opened for candidates to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats, in preparation for Vince Cable's stepping down on July 23rd.

Got to be Jo Swinson.

Probably. The conditions for nominees are as follows:
- They must be an MP.
- They must h ave the backing of at least 10% of the parliamentary party. (That is to say, one MP)
- They must be supported by at least 200 members spread across at least 20 different local parties.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Assuming they are still the largest party by the time they pick someone.

[San Lumen]

Got to be Jo Swinson.

Probably. The conditions for nominees are as follows:
- They must be an MP.
- They must h ave the backing of at least 10% of the parliamentary party. (That is to say, one MP)
- They must be supported by at least 200 members spread across at least 20 different local parties.

with how fractured they are as a party right now who knows how long that could take?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Probably. The conditions for nominees are as follows:
- They must be an MP.
- They must h ave the backing of at least 10% of the parliamentary party. (That is to say, one MP)
- They must be supported by at least 200 members spread across at least 20 different local parties.

with how fractured they are as a party right now who knows how long that could take?

This is the Lib Dems, not the Tories.

[San Lumen]

with how fractured they are as a party right now who knows how long that could take?

This is the Lib Dems, not the Tories.

Oh ok. what's the Tory requirements?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

This is the Lib Dems, not the Tories.

Oh ok. what's the Tory requirements?

A heart of pure evil and a hatred for poor people.


They need two MPs to propose them. The conservative MPs then have a series of votes until only two candidates are left. Those two candidates are then voted on by the party members.

[The Archregimancy]

Where is the thing about William rees-mogg proposing a fascist coup? I can't find it anywhere, I thought he wrote for the times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wi ... _1968_plot

The description of this event in this thread has been just a tad sensationalised.

Quite.

While editor of the Times, William Rees-Mogg published a couple of editorials that implicitly supported replacing Harold Wilson's government with a centre-right technocratic coalition government led by the Labour life peer [Alfred] Lord Robens.

Rees-Mogg also seems to have given some encouragement to Daily Mirror editor Cecil King's bizarre plan to replace Wilson with a government led by Lord Mountbatten, but not the detail of what that entailed.

King separately asked for a front-page article in the Mirror calling for an unspecified form of extra-parliamentary action (functionally, a coup) to replace Wilson, but was immediately forced to resign as editor before his instruction could be acted on.

There's nothing to suggest that William Rees-Mogg knew anything about King's secret meeting with Mountbatten and Sir Solly Zuckerman where he tried to convince both of the latter to join him in removing Wilson. Both Zuckerman and Mountbatten were appalled, told King to his face that the plan amounted to treason, and asked him to leave.

So Ostro is putting two and two together and coming up with six. Rees-Mogg senior did not try and organise a coup; he didn't try to 'transfer supreme authority to the hereditary peers of the realm', and wasn't a fascist conspirator.

He did give some ill-advised backing to another newspaper editor who was trying to organise a coup without knowing the details; but otherwise his own personal practical action was aimed at replacing Wilson with a constitutional centre-right coalition government led by a Labour peer.

[The Archregimancy]

In other news, nominations have opened for candidates to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats, in preparation for Vince Cable's stepping down on July 23rd.

Got to be Jo Swinson.

Unless it turns out that she secretly murders kittens and bathes in their blood, it can hardly be anyone else.

Ed Davey will also run, but Swinson will almost certainly win in a landslide.

[Caracasus]

Yeah he seems intent on carrying on the time honoured tradition of English aristocracy. Collaborating with German fascists.

Rees-Mogg isn't an aristocrat, he's the son of a newspaper editor.

Ah well, British right wing papers also have a track record of working with german fascists...

[Thermodolia]

DUP + UKIP + Tory + Brexit is the only possible government in current numbers on a PR scenario, assuming that all current payroll ministers are simply careerist sellouts rather than somehow ideologically CUK-inclined so they would still vote with the whip whatever the whip is.

But this is taking a poll with a sample of less than 1300 that asks people about their general election voting intentions days before a European election and then scoring those numbers through a PR voting system that we don't actually use. You really can't read a huge amount into this.

I’m just trying to show how fucked up the FPTP voting system that y’all use is. For example I got two new simulations.

Sim one: Based on national poll, assumes the entire UK would vote for the parliament like they do in the Netherlands
Con: 182
Lab: 215
Lib: 85
SNP: 20
UKIP: 20
Green: 20
CUK: 13
Brexit: 78
Other: 17

Possible governments: Lab-Lib-Green-SNP: 340, Con-UKIP-Brexit: 280

Sim two: Based on GB poll, and NI poll.
Con: 152
Lab: 170
Lib: 98
SNP: 25
PC: 7
UKIP: 20
Green: 45
CUK: 14
Brexit: 101
DUP: 6
Sinn Féin: 5
UUP: 3
SDLP: 2
Alliance: 2

Possible governments: Lab-Lib-Green-SNP: 338, Con-UKIP-Brexit-DUP-UUP: 282

[Ifreann]

No. The Tories will internally choose a new leader and that person will be voted in as PM by the Tories and DUP.

No, the they'll be invited to form a government by the Queen in their capacity as leader of the largest party.

They wouldn't be forming a new government, though. There wasn't an election.

[Thermodolia]

No, the they'll be invited to form a government by the Queen in their capacity as leader of the largest party.

They wouldn't be forming a new government, though. There wasn't an election.

Yes they would be. There was a change in the PM, hence a new government

[Philjia]

No, the they'll be invited to form a government by the Queen in their capacity as leader of the largest party.

They wouldn't be forming a new government, though. There wasn't an election.

Whenever a Prime Minister leaves office a new government is formed.

[Souseiseki]

This is what happens under FPTP

In fact this is what it would look like under straight closed list PR:
Con: 143
Lab: 169
Lib: 78
UKIP: 13
Green: 26
SNP: 24
PC: 5
CUK: 13
Brexit: 163
Other: 16

So there would be no possible governments

"FPTP produces strong stable governments"

[The Archregimancy]

Rees-Mogg isn't an aristocrat, he's the son of a newspaper editor.

Ah well, British right wing papers also have a track record of working with german fascists...

Again, there's nothing to suggest that William Rees-Mogg ever worked with or supported fascists during his period as editor of the Times. In any case, since he was born in 1928, he would only have been a teenager by the end of the Second World War, so he wouldn't have had much opportunity to work with German fascists.

The contemporary newspaper editor who tried to launch an anti-Wilson coup in 1968 with Lord Mountbatten as figurehead was editor of the Mirror. The Mirror has long positioned itself as a working-class newspaper, and in that capacity did express some sympathy for Mosley and the BUF in the 1930s (it wasn't just the right-wing Mail that was guilty there), but has consistently supported the Labour Party since at least 1945.

And while I do slightly resent that I find myself in the position of defending the Rees-Moggs' reputation, this type of unpleasantly inaccurate innuendo is objectionable regardless of the target.

[Nakena]

I was profoundly surprised by May's sudden departure. I expected her to go on till the bad end.

Also can catholics even become Prime Minister?

[Philjia]

I was profoundly surprised by May's sudden departure. I expected her to go on till the bad end.

Also can catholics even become Prime Minister?

Catholic emancipation was completed in the 1920s.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

I was profoundly surprised by May's sudden departure. I expected her to go on till the bad end.

Also can catholics even become Prime Minister?

Catholic emancipation was completed in the 1920s.

Not for the monarch.

Won't somebody please think of the royals?

[Caracasus]

Ah well, British right wing papers also have a track record of working with german fascists...

Again, there's nothing to suggest that William Rees-Mogg ever worked with or supported fascists during his period as editor of the Times. In any case, since he was born in 1928, he would only have been a teenager by the end of the Second World War, so he wouldn't have had much opportunity to work with German fascists.

The contemporary newspaper editor who tried to launch an anti-Wilson coup in 1968 with Lord Mountbatten as figurehead was editor of the Mirror. The Mirror has long positioned itself as a working-class newspaper, and in that capacity did express some sympathy for Mosley and the BUF in the 1930s (it wasn't just the right-wing Mail that was guilty there), but has consistently supported the Labour Party since at least 1945.

And while I do slightly resent that I find myself in the position of defending the Rees-Moggs' reputation, this type of unpleasantly inaccurate innuendo is objectionable regardless of the target.

I know, it was a bit of a jab at the Daily Mail's support of fascism and links with the Nazi party. I wasn't exactly being serious and apologies if it came across that way.

I was aware of the Mirror's links, it is rather depressing and scary to read about how close the UK came to if not working with the Nazis, looking the other way while they got on with genocide.

[Uan aa Boa]

I know, it was a bit of a jab at the Daily Mail's support of fascism and links with the Nazi party. I wasn't exactly being serious and apologies if it came across that way.

I thought you'd been getting at Rees-Mogg the younger's fondness for quoting AfD politicians. Ah well. Does anyone else remember A Bit of Fry and Laurie and their running reference to "Sir William - now Lord - Rees-Mogg"? That might just be me showing my age.

[Caracasus]

I know, it was a bit of a jab at the Daily Mail's support of fascism and links with the Nazi party. I wasn't exactly being serious and apologies if it came across that way.

I thought you'd been getting at Rees-Mogg the younger's fondness for quoting AfD politicians. Ah well. Does anyone else remember A Bit of Fry and Laurie and their running reference to "Sir William - now Lord - Rees-Mogg"? That might just be me showing my age.

It sorta was both, but I don't think it came across clearly. Oh well, that'll teach me to drink at lunchtime.

[The Blaatschapen]

Catholic emancipation was completed in the 1920s.

Not for the monarch.

Won't somebody please think of the royals?

Meghan and Catherine are frequently in my thoughts.

Together.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I thought you'd been getting at Rees-Mogg the younger's fondness for quoting AfD politicians. Ah well. Does anyone else remember A Bit of Fry and Laurie and their running reference to "Sir William - now Lord - Rees-Mogg"? That might just be me showing my age.

It sorta was both, but I don't think it came across clearly. Oh well, that'll teach me to drink at lunchtime.

AFD are not fascist either. For christs sake stop mis-using the term.